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hi this is my gggrandfather and family. He appears on the 1911, 1901 and 1891 census then disappears. I can find no birth entry for him or marriage entry for him and his wife celia. Celias maiden name was howes but there are 2 entries for that name around the same time. The family in 1891 are george 39, celia 37, hannah 12, sarah(my ggrandmother) 3, mary ann 2, and george 1 living in hoxton. any help with finding what happened to them previously would be appreciated as i seem to have hit a wall. Thanks Julia

Hi,

For ref only;

1891 England Census
about George Olive
Name: George Olive
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Celia
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Hoxton New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Olive 39
Celia Olive 37
Hannah Olive 12
Sarah Olive 3
Mary Ann Olive 2
George Olive 1


Dee x

Is this them for ref

1891 England Census
about George Olive
Name: George Olive
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Celia
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Hoxton New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Olive 39
Celia Olive 37
Hannah Olive 12
Sarah Olive 3
Mary Ann Olive 2
George Olive 1

snap!

Hi Mel!!

In 1891 and 1901 George was a Boot Finisher, so was he married to another lady and therefore couldn't marry Celia???

1881 England Census
about Geo. Olive
Name: Geo. Olive
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Leonards Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 3 Parker St.
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Boot Finisher

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerston
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Geo. Olive 29
Eliza Olive 24
Elizabeth Meredith 9


Dee x

yes this is them but no more info before that thanks Julia

Maybe????????

1861 England Census
about Cecilia Howes
Name: Cecilia Howes
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Eward
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: St Luke
Sub-registration district: City Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 99
Household Members: Name Age
Eward Howes 35
Hannah Howes 31
Edward Howes 10
James Howes 9
Cecilia Howes 7
Jesse Howes 5
Joseph Howes 3
Charles Howes 1
George Howes 20

1871 England Census
about Seliar Howes
Name: Seliar Howes
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Providence Street

Occupation: Tye Maker (Tie??)

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: City Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 258
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Howes 46
Hannah Howes 39
Edward Howes 20
Henry Howes 19
Seliar Howes 17
Jessey Howes 15
Joseph Howes 13
Charles Howes 11
George Howes 9
Hannah Howes 6
William Howes 4
Thomas Howes 1

Celia's left home, notice how the eldest daughter (Hannah Olive) is named after Celia's mother.......... I think Hannah may have been illegitemate??

1881 England Census
about Hannah Howes
Name: Hannah Howes
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Edward
Gender: Female
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Sarah Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Howes 55
Hannah Howes 49
Joseph Howes 23
Geo. Howes 19
Hannah Howes 10
Thomas Howes 11
Esther Maynad 5 >>>>>>>>>> Grandchild
Hannah C. Howes 4


Grandchilds parents??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOWES Cecilia Bethnal Green 1c 586 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
MAYNARD William Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 586 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Selley Harriet Bethnal Green 1c 586
Terrington John Bethnal Green 1c 586



Dee xx

Hannah Olives (Maynard) birth;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAYNARD Hannah Celia Holborn 1b 816

thanks for your details. I think its the right celia or cecilia but no marriage to george olive or any previous record of george. I was a bit worried if the right marriage to maynard as there is a celia and william maynard on the 1901 census living in kent so completely muddled! thanks for any help Julia

Someone else researching on Ancestry;

Name: Hannah Celia Maynard
Birth: Abt 1878 - London, England
Marriage: 1895 - London, England
Spouse: Henry/Harry Hyams

Hi Julia,

I think that both of them had been married before, divorce would have been too expensive........ so that left no other option than just to live together as husband and wife, this was common practice back then.

George is very difficult to trace prior to 1881, his mother may well have married after his birth so he would probably use that surname until he came to marry.

I would hazard a guess that he is the one in 1881 married to Eliza though, same area, same occupation, just haven't found a marriage.

Dee x

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about George Olive
Name: George Olive
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 285

????????????

Is this his death??

Deaths Sep 1927 (96%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Olive George H 74 Shoreditch 1c 70

Sorry to leave you to it Dee but I had to feed OH and mum.

CELIA HOWES Pedigree
Female
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 09 JAN 1854

Christening: 29 JAN 1854 Saint Thomas Chartrhouse, Finsbury, London, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: EDWARD HOWES Family
Mother: HANNAH

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
HENRY JAMES HOWES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 08 MAR 1852

Christening: 29 JAN 1854 Saint Thomas Chartrhouse, Finsbury, London, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: EDWARD HOWES Family
Mother: HANNAH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

Poss birth for George.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about George Olive
Name: George Olive
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 285

RIGHT found him on the 1881 census a Boot Finisher with wife Eliza and sister aged 9 to the head of the house transcribed as Visitor.

1881 England Census
about Geo. Olive
Name: Geo. Olive
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Leonards Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 3 Parker St.
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Boot Finisher

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerston
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Geo. Olive 29
Eliza Olive 24
Elizabeth Meredith 9

thanks hannah celia maynard i think is cecilia s daughter shown as hannan olive. Will probably have to send for birth certificate for her but its still george olive i have no joy on Julia

I'm still trying Julia!!!!!

thanks for all your help i will have to spend some money and apply for birth certificate and death cert. of george so i can get parents details. I think from all this info they were both married before and just called themselves married. would explain different surnames, just put me off scent when there were 2 celia howes. thanks everyone for help Julia