Find Ancestors

Hi All,

I wonder if there is anyone in Kent who can do me a real big favour and check a Dover marriage record? (my excuse is that I’m in Brittany at the moment and won’t be back in the UK until the end of the year).

It’s Edward A SAUNDERS = Mary A LOCKER 1914 Qtr4 Dover 2a 2739

Edward went down with his submarine HMS/M C33 on 04/05 August 1915 and he never knew his daughter, Edweena, who was born 16 Oct 1915.

According to Edward’s naval record, he was born 29 Dec 1891 in Bootle, Liverpool, although his details on the CWGC site give his age as 21 and without any middle initial.
The CWGC site notes Edward’s parents as Tom and Madeline Saunders of Liverpool.
A search of the 1901 census brings up two people who seem to be Madeline & Edward (RG13 / Piece 3446 / Folio 48 / Page 36).
The 1911 census has: Maderline Saunders / Mother / 51 / Married / 32-7-5-2 / Pimlico, London; in the household of her son Alfred, age 27, in Dingle, Liverpool.
I would be useful though to confirm both Edward’s & Mary’s ages, and the names of the bride & bridegroom’s fathers and their occupations – which would be useful to try and find Tom.

A bit of background info:
The widowed Mary Saunders went to Bridgwater, Somerset where the people I believe to be her parents – George & Mary LOCKER – were probably living (they were there in the 1911 census). It is certainly where Edweena was born:
Edweena M SAUNDERS 1915 Qtr4 Bridgwater 5c 477.

Edweena married Frederick C GILLARD 1936 Qtr4 Bridgwater 5a 821, and she died in 2007. Frederick died in 1989, aged 76.

It’s possible That Mary Saunders later married William R BRADFORD 1920 Qtr4 Bridgwater 5c 819.
There are death records for:
Mary Ann BRADFORD Nov 1993 Taunton Deane / Reg No B58B / District & subdistrict 7241B / Entry No 127 Age 97 DoB 21 Sep 1896.
&
William R BRADFORD 1969 Qtr1 Bridgwater 7c 408 Age 75.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Phil Curtis

You can't see info without buying the cert,

To check the parish register, you'd have to know which church they married (IF they married in church)...........and to find that info, you need the cert

The cert will cost £9.25 ordered on line from the GRO.........inclusive of postage

For Ref.

Name: Edward B Saunders
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Maleline Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Seaforth, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Great Crosby
Ecclesiastical parish: Great Crosby St Luke
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Crosby
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 198a
Household Members: Name Age
Maleline Saunders 40 Domestic Servant, b. London
Edward B Saunders 8


1891

Name: Madeline T Saunders
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
[Pimlico]

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Chas W Constantine 38
Annie Constantine 19
Wm Constantine 1/12
Madeline T Saunders 30 Independent, b. Pimlico
Annie M Saunders 3 b. Clapham


1881

Name: Thomas A. Saunders
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Madeline Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Dublin, Ireland

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 35 Hollydale Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Actor

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas A. Saunders 22
Madeline Saunders 20
Horace L. Saunders 10 (Image says son, 10months)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1879
BUTTERFIELD Blanche Elizabeth Camberwell 1d 1080
King John Francis C Camberwell 1d 1080
Mayhew Madeline Townshend Camberwell 1d 1080
SAUNDERS Thomas Alfred Camberwell 1d 1080

Where was Madeline in 1911?

If you could narrow the likely locations, I could look in parish records.

Gwyn

Gwyn, Philip gives 1911 details in his opening post.

Sorry That should be Mary, who may have married in the 1911 parish

Philip seems decidedly uniterested

There is no record of a Mary Locker in Kent in 1911

Thank you for looking Flick

My apologies for not replying sooner; frankly I hadn't ticked the "Add to My Watched Threads" box and had forgotten about it.
Edweena is not any relation, she was a neighbour of my mother's. My interest was because Edward Saunders was a submariner, as was I back in the '60's & '70's.
Sorry folks,
Phil

More a collection of stuff to check out than any definitive answers.

1881 England Census
Civil Parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 35 Hollydale Rd
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 683 Folio: 14 Page Number: 22

Thomas A. Saunders 22 Dublin, Ireland Head M Actor
Madeline Saunders 20 Pimlico, Middlesex, England Wife M
Horace L. Saunders 10 Cambll, Surrey, England Son
[Horace - I can't see image, but I guess his age is 10m not 10y]

Marriages Sep 1879 (>99%)
BUTTERFIELD Blanche Elizabeth Camberwell 1d 1080
KING John Francis C Camberwell 1d 1080
Mayhew Madeline Townshend Camberwell 1d 1080
SAUNDERS THOMAS ALFRED Camberwell 1d 1080

Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
SAUNDERS Horace Lionel Camberwell 1d 833

I don't know the relevance, but this h/h is on the same page as Tom & Maddy:

1881 England Census
Civil Parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 35 Hollydale Rd
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 683 Folio: 14 Page Number: 22

Thomas Mayhew 49 Limehouse, Middlesex, England Head M Bookbinders Foreman Unempd
May I. Mayhew 49 Deptford, Kent, England Wife M
Margaret Mayhew 24 Cleveland Bh Subject, America Daughter

1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRFQ-B8P

It'sworth checking the 1871/81 images as they show the wife as Mary J/May I.
I can see a mistranscription there - I can also see May being used as a pet name for Mary.
I'm quite familiar with May being used as a pet name for Margery - my gran's named May after her Aunt Margery - but I think this latter usage may be more common in Scotland than England.

1891 [rg12/480/57/3 Camberwell (Camberwell)]
Maddy & 3y.o. Annie are visiting someone, but I can't see image.

1901 [rg13/3446 is West Derby (Crosby)]

1911 [rd464 sd4=Toxteth Park East]
HOUSEHOLD SAUNDERS ALFRED M 1884 27 Toxteth Park Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD SAUNDERS SARAH F 1885 26 Toxteth Park Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD SAUNDERS THOMAS M 1905 6 Toxteth Park Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD SAUNDERS NELLIE F 1910 5 MONTHS Toxteth Park Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD SAUNDERS MADERLINE F 1860 51 Toxteth Park Lancashire


Births Dec 1883 (>99%)
SAUNDERS Alfred Thomas Camberwell 1d 882

Births Jun 1888 (>99%)
SAUNDERS Annie Camberwell 1d 856

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Saunders Edward Bray W. Derby 8b 529

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
SAUNDERS Edward Bray Litherland South Sefton MAYHEW LITH/24/337
[LancsBMD index by y.o.b., not quarter of registration, and since one had 6 w to rego a birth, Ed was likely born in the latter half of Dec 1892]

Not that I know where Bray comes from, but in both my parents' families, there are kids whose mid-name is their mum's or gran's maiden surname.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1904 (>99%)
O'Hanlon Mary W. Derby 8b 691
O'Hanlon Peter W. Derby 8b 691
Saunders Alfred Thomas W. Derby 8b 691
Watkinson Sarah Ellen W. Derby 8b 691

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1904
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SAUNDERS Alfred T WATKINSON Sarah E West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/209/181
[So possibly an RC marr that the registrar would have to attend - maybe it's in Ancestry's Liverpool RC register collection - course, it might just be a rego office marr]


Marriages Dec 1914 (>99%)
Locker Mary A Saunders Dover 2a 2739
Saunders Edward A Locker Dover 2a 2739

http://webapps.kent.gov.uk/KCC.ROIS.Web.Sites.Public/Pages/MarriageSearch.aspx
Name SAUNDERS, Edward, A
Year Of Marriage 1914
Entry Number 35
Register D/D/36
Name LOCKER, Mary, A
Year Of Marriage 1914
Entry Number 35
Register D/D/36
[Just checking if the local index gave any extra info, but they don't say where D/D is]

Incidentally, there's a page in my grandad's WW1 (army) service record where it asks for the details of a married soldier's family, and he gives the names of his wife & kids, plus his d.o.marr, & the d.o.b's for his kids.
I've also seen lots of d.o.b's of soldiers, both as stated on their attestation, and for them by their parents on the (Canadian) 1901 census. Lying abt age is not rare, but it is rare for soldiers to lie abt their b'day, even if they lie abt the year.

Births Dec 1915 (>99%)
Saunders Edweena M Locker Bridgwater 5c 477

1911 [rg14pn14286 rd306 sd2 ed10 Bridgwater (Bridgwater)]
Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911 District / other County / other
HOUSEHOLD LOCKER GEORGE M 1857 54 Bridgwater Somersetshire
HOUSEHOLD LOCKER MARY F 1863 48 Bridgwater Somersetshire
HOUSEHOLD LOCKER ANNIE F 1897 14 Bridgwater Somersetshire
HOUSEHOLD LOCKER FRANK M 1899 12 Bridgwater Somersetshire
HOUSEHOLD LOCKER KATE F 1901 10 Bridgwater Somersetshire
HOUSEHOLD EVANS RAYMOND M 1888 23 Bridgwater Somersetshire
[Mary was born in Cornwall - marr 26y]

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
Locker George Liskeard 5c 80
Rith John William Liskeard 5c 80
Tallon Jane Liskeard 5c 80
Welsh Mary Liskeard 5c 80

1901 [rg13/2092/130/21 PLYMOUTH (Charles)]
Name Age Where born Administrative county Civil parish Occupation
George Locker 42 Minehead Somerset Devon Plymouth Brewers Storeman
Mary Locker 38 Warleggan Cornwall Devon Plymouth
George H Locker 15 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth
Walter J Locker 11 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth
Joseph P Locker 8 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth
Mary A Locker 4 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth
Frank Locker 2 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth
Kate Locker 1 Stonehouse Devon Devon Plymouth

Lewis (1848) says:
STONEHOUSE, EAST (St. George), a town and parish, forming a union of itself, in the borough of Devonport, and suburbs of Plymouth, Roborough and S. divisions of Devon...
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=445

Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
Locker George Henry E. Stonehouse 5b 295

Births Mar 1890 (>99%)
Locker Walter Thomas E. Stonehouse 5b 306

Births Dec 1891 (>99%)
Locker William John W E. Stonehouse 5b 280
Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%)
Locker William John 2 E. Stonehouse 5b 223

Births Sep 1893 (>99%)
Locker Joseph Percy E. Stonehouse 5b 297

Births Dec 1896 (>99%)
Locker Mary Ann E. Stonehouse 5b 296

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
LOCKER Frank East Stonehouse 5b 260

Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Locker Kate E. Stonehouse 5b 278

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSC-6TR
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSC-FMX
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSC-FH9
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSC-FQS
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCS8-HD8
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSZ-GDF [don't know abt this one]
I think you'l have to visit an FS FHC to see the images
The map shows 4 in what I guess is Brittany - Lorient, Brest, St Brieuc & Rennes
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:France_-_Centres_d%27Histoire_Familiale

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC9V-SDC [with image link]
[Addy=6 Battery St Stonehouse; George is a marine; Walt b 26/12/1889; bp 2/2/1893]
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC9V-SDN [with same image link]
[Will b 9/1891 bp 2/2/1893]
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC9V-SFF [with image link]
[b 18/7/1893 bp 21/11/1893]

I don't know the relevance of:
Marriages Jun 1904 (>99%)
Butler Eliza Plymouth 5b 617
Hurrell Susan Ann Plymouth 5b 617
Langdon William Robert Plymouth 5b 617
Locker George Henry Plymouth 5b 617

Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
>>Bools Frances Plymouth 5b 568
Harris Francis J Plymouth 5b 568
Keetch Julia Plymouth 5b 568
>>LOCKER Walter T Plymouth 5b 568

Births Dec 1902 (>99%)
Locker Rhoda May Plymouth 5b 238
Deaths Mar 1905 (>99%)
Locker Rhoda May 2 E.Stonehouse 5b 229

Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
Locker Eliza May Plymouth 5b 252

Births Sep 1906 (>99%)
Locker George Henry Plymouth 5b 247

Births Sep 1907 (>99%)
LOCKER Florence Dorothy Plymouth 5b 251


1891 [rg12/667/ MEDWAY (Gillingham)]
Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Residence View Image
George Locker abt 1860 Minehead , Somerset, England relation city, Kent

1891 [rg12/1739/45/17 EAST STONEHOUSE (East Stonehouse)]
Mary Locker abt 1868 city, Cornwall, England Head city, Devon
George H Locker Mary abt 1886 city, Devon, England relation city, Devon
Walter T Locker Mary abt 1890 city, Devon, England relation city, Devon