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I understand my Grandmother Louisa Harbach nee Harris had an illegitimate child before she married my Grandfather, Thomas Harbach. I believe Louisa was born around 1862 in the district of Droitwich, Worcestershire. The child, a girl, lived in the same village of Stoke Works near Droitwich as the Harbach family, My father passed this information on to me. He only found out about her when he was well into his eighties, and he'd lived in the village half his life!! I presume the girl lived with other members of the Harris family, but that is just a guess. My Dad's oldest brother, Harry, was born in 1894 so I presume the child must have been born prior to this.

I never thought that I'd ever be able to find out about her, but after the wonderful research done by members of the Genes United family in helping me to find another lost family member, I'm very hopeful that someone can help me.

For reference -

Marriages Mar 1893 (>99%)
Harbach Thomas Droitwich 6c 395
Harris Louisa Droitwich 6c 395

1901 census -

HARBACH, Thomas Head Married M 38 1863 Saltmaker
Droitwich Worcestershire VIEW
HARBACH, Louisa Wife Married F 36 1865
Dodderhill Worcestershire VIEW
HARBACH, Harry Son M 7 1894
Dodderhill Worcestershire VIEW
HARBACH, Frederick Son M 5 1896
Dodderhill Worcestershire VIEW
HARBACH, Lizzie H Daughter F 2 1899
Dodderhill Worcestershire VIEW

Piece: 2797 Folio: 76 Page: 22
Registration District: Droitwich
Civil Parish: Dodderhill Municipal Borough:
Address: 49, Sagebury Terrace Shaw Lane, Dodderhill
County: Worcestershire

Do you have the marriage certificate of Thomas and Louisa? Could Louisa have been married before?

1911 census for reference -

HARBACH, Thomas Head Married 18 years M 48 1863 Saltmaker Droitwich Worcester VIEW
HARBACH, Louisa Wife Married F 46 1865 Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW
HARBACH, Harry Son Single M 17 1894 Blacksmith Apprentice Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW
HARBACH, Frederick Son M 14 1897 Errand Boy Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW
HARBACH, Lizzie Hilda Daughter F 12 1899 School Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW
HARBACH, Thomas Edgar Harris Son M 9 1902 School Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW
HARBACH, Eric Alfred Eade Son M 5 1906 School Stoke Works Bromsgrove VIEW

RG number: RG14 Piece: 17767
Reference: RG14PN17767 RG78PN1087 RD381 SD2 ED12 SN150
Registration District: Droitwich Sub District: Droitwich Enumeration District: 12 Parish: Dodderhill
Address: 49 Sagesbury Terrace Stoke Works Bromsgrove
County: Worcestershire

Original states 5 children born, all living

1891 census - place of birth matches 1911??????

DIGBY, Lettice A Daughter F 8 1883 London S W
DIGBY, Margery F Daughter F 7 1884 Meriden
Warwickshire VIEW
FARGUHARSON, Janet Niece F 8 1883 Chelsea
London VIEW
FARGUHARSON, Margaret Niece F 6 1885 Chelsea
London VIEW
DRAKE, Fanny Visitor Single F 29 1862 Nurse Domestic Servant East Stoke Dorsetshire VIEW
LEES, Kate Servant Single F 26 1865 Childrens Maid Domestic Servant Minworth Warwickshire VIEW
KIRK, Hannah Servant Single F 25 1866 Cook Domestic Servant Horseley Derbyshire VIEW
THACKER, Sarah Servant Single F 29 1862 Parlourmaid Domestic Servant Sutton Bridge Lincolnshire VIEW
WALKER, Lizzie Servant Single F 18 1873 Kitchenmaid Domestic Servant Comberford Staffordshire VIEW
HARRIS, Louisa Servant Single F 26 1865 Housemaid Upper Domestic Servant Stoke Works Worcestershire VIEW
GREAVES, Lizzie Servant Single F 17 1874 Housemaid Domestic Servant Berkeswell Warwickshire VIEW
KAVANAGH, Herbert Servant M 15 1876 Pantry Boy Domestic Servant India VIEW

Piece: 2441 Folio: 137 Page: 10
Registration District: Meriden
Civil Parish: Meriden Municipal Borough:
Address: Meriden Hall, Berkswell Lane, Meriden
County: Warwickshire

It's all so very exciting and interesting. Thank you all. I see that my Grandma was still single in the 1891 census, and married my Grandad in 1893.

What a wonderful service you do for people like me. I only wish I'd been more attentive to the Genes progamme and had contacted you earlier.

Thanks again!

Dianne

Louisa had a brother named Thomas Harris. My Dad told me that several of her brothers were policemen. One of them at least was a policeman in Birmingham. He was injured in 1901 when a riot occured as Lloyd George was try to give a speech in the cily. Lloyd George escaped wearing a policeman's uniform, but Dad's uncle was so severly injured that he never worked again.

Could this be Louisa in 1871 census??
HARRIS, George Head M 51 1820 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Mary Anne Wife F 29 1842 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Susanah Daughter F 12 1859 Worcestershire
HARRIS, William Son M 11 1860 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Louisa Daughter F 6 1865 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Thomas Son M 2 1869 Worcestershire

Piece: 3073 Folio: 79 Page: 21
Registration District: Bromsgrove
Civil Parish: Stoke Prior Municipal Borough:
Address: Stoke Works, Stoke Prior County: Worcestershire

George is actually a saltmaker on the original census.



Or could this be her in 1871 census??
HARRIS, Peter Head M 54 1817 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Sarah Wife F 46 1825 Worcestershire
HARRIS, George Son M 29 1842 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Thomas Son M 14 1857 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Rosanna Daughter F 12 1859 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Frederick Son M 10 1861 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Louisa Daughter F 6 1865 Worcestershire
HARRIS, Laura Daughter F 3 1868 Worcestershire

Piece: 3070 Folio: 68 Page: 28
Registration District: Droitwich
Civil Parish: Dodderhill Municipal Borough:
Address: Causway Meadow, Dodderhill County: Worcestershire


I then tried to find girls born between 1891 and 1893 that were living with someone else such as this one living with her grandmother -

1901 census -
EVANS, Mary Head Widow F 64 1837 Living On Own Means Droitwich Worcestershire
HARRIS, John M Grand Son M 10 1891 Droitwich Worcestershire
HARRIS, Mary A Grand Daughter F 8 1893 Droitwich Worcestershire

Piece: 2796 Folio: 42 Page: 17
Registration District: Droitwich
Civil Parish: Droitwich St Peter Municipal Borough:
Address: Holloway Road, Droitwich St Peter, Droitwich
County: Worcestershire

Possible births?
Births Sep 1892 (>99%)
Harris Mary Ann Droitwich 6c343
Births Dec 1892 (>99%)
Harris Mary Ann Droitwich 6c356

I tend to think that the family of Peter and Sarah are possible parents for Louisa. The village of Stoke Works where both families lived in 1871 was a small village divided in two by the parishes of Dodderhill and Stoke Prior. I noticed that on the census of 1901 it mentions that the Louisa Harris, who was married to Thomas Harbach, was born in the Dodderhill parish. in the 1871 census the family of George Harris lived in the Stoke Prior part of the village and the family of Peter Harris lived in the Dodderhill parish. This leads me to believe (at this moment) that the family of Peter Harris could well be 'my' Louisa's family.

I have posted this information before but it seems to have disappeared so here I go again.

My father once told me that his mother, Louisa Harris, had several brothers who were policemen. One of them was on duty the day that David Lloyd George came into Birmingham in 1901 and a riot ensued. Lloyd George was smuggled out of the meeting dressed as a policeman Several people, including policemen, were very badly injured, including one of the Harris brothers (wish I knew who!!) and after this he was so severely injured he never worked again.

This makes me even more sure that the children of Peter and Sarah Harris were my Grandma's family, as there are three sons.

I also notice that the youngest girl was named Laura, and I have a photo of a Laura Harris, a teacher in the Stoke Works (now Stoke Prior) school in approximately 1913. Is she the same Laura? Maybe I'll never know!

The only way you will know for sure is to order the marriage certificate for Louisa to see who her father is.

Thanks for the advice Lynski. How do I go about ordering a marriage certificate?

Use this site -

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

These are the details

Marriages Mar 1893 (>99%)
Harbach Thomas Droitwich 6c 395
Harris Louisa Droitwich 6c 395

Thanks so much for all your info. I will try to pursue the marriage certificates.

Now I have a general question. If e.g. I want to find Peter Harris on the 1971 census I simply type in Peter Harris Droitwich. Individually I can find him and all his children if I look for them on a first name basis. However, if I simply type in HARRIS Droitwich NONE of their names appear. I did email Genes Reunited who suggested I just type in Harris Worcestershire. Same problem. No sign of any Peter. If I type in Peter, Worcestershire with no birth date, there are about six of them. Strange!

I hope I'm being clear enough and someone can help.

Thanks,

Dianne

The trouble with the Genes records they are not so easy to search, so many of the people that tend to help on here use other sites... ancestry or FMP.
It seems better to put less information in than everything you know

jax

Thanx Jax. I'll know better next time.

Thanx Jax. I'll know better next time.

Thank you all. I have solved the mystery about which Harrises were my ancesters. It IS the family of Peter and Sarah Harris. I know this because in the 1881 Census their address is recorded as 49 Sagebury Terrace, Dodderhill. That's the house where my father and I were also born. When the daughter of Peter Harris, Louisa, and my Grandfather married they must have moved in with the Harris family. Upon the death of her parents my Grandfather must have taken over as head of household and the rest is history.

Possibly Louisa's illegitimate child was Katherine Harris born in 1890. If so she was living with her uncle and aunt, Wm and Mary Owen in the 1891 census at Bath Gardens, Hanbury Street. Is this in Droitwich?

Dianne

I note you are still asking questions

However, you have amrked a posting as being answered


This shows on the "index" to postings as if the THREAD has been answered


when in fact it has not.


May I suggest that you remove that tick that you put on Lynski's posting from October



sylvia

Thanks for your suggestion, Sylvia in Canada, but I don't have a clue how I marked the posting as being answered, and try as I might I don't have a clue how to remove it. I should stick to knitting!!

Can you please help me?