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I am trying to find details of a Birney (or Bunney) Hunter, b c 1923 in the Tyneside area , possibly in Swalwell or Whickham. I am not sure if the Birney/Bunney was a formal forename or a nick name. He was an engineering apprentice at Vickers Armstrongs , Scotswood within the period 1939-1947 . He may be distantly related to Robert Hunter , bc 1819 Swalwell Co Duham. Robert Hunter lived at various times in Whickham, Gateshead , Jesmond and Elswick . Robert Hunter was married to Lucy M. Pearson c 1850.
Birney/ Bunney Hunter may also have been distantly related to Henry P. Collingwood who married a daughter of Robert Hunter in 1872.

I have drawn a blank over a number of years in my search for him (I may even have met him in my dim and distant past) , so any information would be helpful.

Bob Speight

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Is he reputed to be related to you?

Obviously a nickname...................

Have you tried researching ?

Hello Bob, I'm afraid you have to dismiss conjecture and work on known facts and diligent research to establish connections.

How have you connected to Birney/Bunny Hunter?

Could you tell us where you got his name from?

As a nickname, Bunney could mean absolutely anything at all, so we need a little more information.

Using 'soundalike', 'Bernie' seems more feasible

Have you looked for a Bernard?

Have you looked for any BMD info?

A thought - have you ruled out Bernie (Bernard)?

How do you know he was born c1923?

Also, worth having a look at what is in this collection:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=183-dva&cid=0#0

The Apprentices Welfare Club and the Personnel Matters may be helpful.

Apologies for the delay in replying ;
Reggie - The possible relationship is through the Collingwood surname to which I am distantly related thro' marriage . He may have been an apprentice to a Speight , a Collingwood or a Hall , all of whom were related by marriage and also worked at Vickers during the time in question. Not quite sure why you think it is obviously a nick name . There were Bunney surnames in the area in the late 1890's. It would not be the first time that a surname has been used as a Christian name . The pronunciation of the name by the people who knew him , even allowing for the Geordie twang (which in the case of Bernie would have been pronounced Bornie, or in the case of Bernard it would be pronounced Bornad ) was leaning towards Bunney . Yes I have tried researching , with little result , which is why I had hopes of resorting to this Community page.

Marie Celeste - The relationship is outlined in my reply to Reggie above. Why do I think he was born around 1923 ? He served his apprenticeship at Vickers for five years coming out at the age of 21 during a period around 1938 -1947 giving an earliess birth date of 1923. Conjecture it may be ,but in the absence of facts , you have to start some where , even if it is reasoned conjecture. Many thanks for the suggestions , the Vickers records may be the best next source .
Regards Bob Speight

Hello Bob, better late than never with your response! :-)

Have to say, I'm a Geordie born and bred and have never heard Bernard pronounced as Bornard or Bernie as Bornie.

So if he came out of apprenticeship age around 21 at some point during 1938 to 1947 then he could be born 1917 to 1926 (so I assume you're picking a mid point).

If you could say how you've connected to this man initially it might give us something further to go on.

It could also be short for Benjamin maybe bunny/benny) or maybe even Albert, so many possibilities.

Any idea on more precise places he lived?

It could also be a nickname for Brian as I have know a couple of chaps we calley Bunny whose names were accually Brian.

Hi Everyone ,
Many thanks for the responses :

MarieCeleste - Re Bornad - I have been around the north east for some time and accents change with time. . I can reccomend "Larn Yersel Geordie " by Scott -Dobson , who was my Art Teacher.
The relationship was outlined in my post of 14th Sept... Speight , Hall and Collingwood were all related by marriage , Colllingwood was possibly rrelated to Bunny Hunter by marriage. Also the chap in question was an engineering apprentice. Engineers were notorious for giving their apprentices nick names , many of which which had the habit of sticking to them throughout their working lives.

CelticShiv- Never thought about Benjamin , again due to Geordie twang , with the "e" locally pronounced as "eh" . (not to be confused with Eh ? which is "what ? " ) and not "uh" . But thanks , I will give it a try.

My Fairy Godmother - Bunnie as a nick name for Brian . Never come across that one. What area are you from ?

Regards Bob Speight ( alias Spate , Spreight, Spight , Spike , Speght, Spade. Speighty etc)

the only male B* Hunter birth in the vicinity 1915-1930 was

Births Dec 1925
Hunter Benjamin - George - Tynemouth 10b 377

which would seem most likely to belong to this marriage

Marriages Mar 1909
GEORGE Rosy Tynemouth 10b 281
HUNTER John Tynemouth 10b 281

... although it's possible that George was the mother's birth surname but she married Hunter under a first married surname ... I don't see a likely couple for them in the 1911 census

the one other birth in Tynemouth reg dist with those surnames was John DB 1916


the name Rosy George doesn't seem to appear anywhere in records

possibly in 1901 she was

Name: Rose George
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Mother: Annie George
Birth Place: North Shields, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Tynemouth

ah, here she is in 1911

Name: Rose Hunter
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: North Shield, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: North Shields Tynemouth
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 34 Church Street
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: No Occupation
Registration district: Tynemouth

... but what I was looking for was husband's occupation ! to see whether he was likely to be the father of an engineer

I wonder whether this could be him with marital status misstated

Name: John Hunter
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Crew Fireman (Crew)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Newcastle, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Walker
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Fireman Ingboatman (sigh, 'Tugboatman')
Registration district: Tynemouth

... more likely than a shoemaker or a labourer perhaps to have an engineer son :-)


there are Benjamin Hunter marriages in Northumberland S 1959 and Newcastle T 1961

these are recent electoral roll listings for the two couples in case you think that Benjamin is a candidate and might be one of those grooms

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/hunter/benjamin/ne11/348602051/

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/hunter/benjamin/ne30/1142321926/

one of those couples seems likely to have had a son Benjamin in the mid-1960s ... who could be this person ... (a long string of 'possiblies' but you never know)

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/benjamin-hunter/13/4b9/bb3

Actor/fisherman Robson Green, him of Geordie origin, was so named!

Cant remember which parent, but distinctly remember him telling the story of the naming pattern 'oop north' whereby the eldest (think) would take the surname from one of the parents or grandparents.

So Bunny Hunter as a real name is not out of the question - albeit the records don't seem to support in this instance ;-)

Bob - I'm well aware of Scott Dobson and "Larn Yersel Geordie" having given many copies to friends from outside the region (I did mention I was a Geordie born and bred, I've lived on Tyneside all of my life)

Did you have any luck with the National Archives links I posted?