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Fredrick joseph harper b1865 guiseley son of john harper /Hannah procter thackray I can find him working on his uncles farm in1881 [askwith] john thackray,.
He marrs agnes ann fell1886 in ilkley she is b settle/gigglswick1863.
they have 3 children betsy Elizabeth b 1890 settle, john abbotson b 1892 rathmell
[ gigglswick], ethel b1887 Bradford.
agnes ann fell d1921
ethel marr harry currie1911 gigglswick betsy d un marr Bradford, john abbotson was killed at the somme 1916, after 1891 I don't know what happened to him when I get agnes up on the census she says im marr but where the heck is he I have looked all around even phoned up agnes,s off spring the name fell in settle/giggleswick is well known [butchers] even phoned up ethel/harrys son no one knows what happened to him,
what I thought once was did he go to the boar war his age was 34 his nephew went to the war in 1898 maybe???,WW1 is out to old I did get a fred harp[er that d 1902 in wakefield but that's not him, I have being to find him on/off for years
maybe you nice lot can help me
regards john harper

For ref.


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
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First Name FRED JOSEPH
Last Name HARPER
Relationship NEP
Condition SINGLE
Gender Male
Age 17
Year Of Birth 1864
Occupation FARM BOY AG LAB
Birth Town GUISELEY
Birth County YORKSHIRE
Birth Place -
House Number -
House Name ?
Street -
Town -
Parish ASKWITH
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (West riding)
Country ENGLAND
Registration District WHARFEDALE
Archive Reference RG11
Piece Number 4336
Folio 12
Page 3

ELIZABETH THACKRAY SISTER 39 1842 SNOWDEN
Image Transcription
JOHN THACKRAY HEAD 46 1835 SNOWDEN
Image Transcription
JOSEPH EDWARD THACKRAY SON 0 1881 SNOWDEN




1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
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First Name AGNES A
Last Name HARPER
Relationship WIFE
Condition MARRIED
Gender Female
Year Of Birth 1864
Age 27
Occupation -
Birth Town -giggleswick
Birth County YORKSHIRE
Birth Place -
House Name -
Street CRAVEN TERRACE
Town SETTLE
Parish SETTLE
City -
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (West Riding)
Registration District SETTLE
Vessel Name -
Archive Reference RG12
Piece Number 3493
Folio 43
Page 11


BETSY E HARPER DAUGHTER 1890 1
b Giggleswick
ETHEL HARPER DAUGHTER 1887 4
b Bradford
>>FREDERICK HARPER HEAD 1866 25 Occupation CARTER b Guisley



1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
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First Name AGNES A
Last Name HARPER
Relationship HEAD
Condition MARRIED
Gender Female
Age 37
Year Of Birth 1864
Occupation LAUNDRESS NOT DOMESTIC
Birth Town GIGGLESWICK
Birth County YORKSHIRE
Birth Place -
Street MILL HILL ROAD
Town GIGGLESWICK
Parish GIGGLESWICK
City -
Country ENGLAND
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (West riding)
Vessel Name -
Municipal Ward -
Registration District SETTLE
Archive Reference RG13
Piece Number 4021
Folio 83
Page 19

BETSY HARPER DAUGHTER 11 1890 GIGGLESWICK
Image Transcription
ETHEL HARPER DAUGHTER 13 1888 BRADFORD
Image Transcription
JOHN HARPER SON 8 1893 GIGGLESWICK




1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
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First Name AGNES ANN
Last Name HARPER
Relationship HEAD
Condition WIDOW
Gender Female
Year Of Birth 1864
Age 47
Occupation LAUNDRES
Address GIGGLESWICK
Parish GIGGLESWICK
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (West riding)
Country ENGLAND
Where Born GIGGLESWICK
Year Of Marriage -
Years Of Marriage -
Archive Reference RG14
Piece Number 25732
Census Reference RG14PN25732 RG78PN1478 RD484 SD2 ED5 SN36
Registration District SETTLE
Registration District Number 484
Sub District SETTLE
Enumeration District 5
SubDistrict Number 2

ETHEL HARPER DAUGHTER 1888 23 BRADFORD
Image Transcription
JOHN ALHOTSON HARPER SON 1893 18 GIGGLESWICK


Agnes is now a widow, had given birth to 4 children but 1 had died.

It's not an uncommon name, so impossible to tell if this is him without further evidence:

First Name Frederick
Last Name Harper
Soldier Number 15842
Rank Bugler
Regiment Imperial Yeomanry
Year 1899-1902
Literary References The National Archives WO128. Imperial Yeomanry, Soldiers' Documents, South African War.
Notes Returned with Company
The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal, South Africa 1901
Units Unit: 77 Imperial Yeomanry Company (Manchester), Rank: Bugler, Number: 15842
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

?????

This one was 49 in WWI, any chance he fibbed about his age?


First Name Frederick Joseph
Last Name Harper
Regimental Number T1SR/515
Rank Driver
Unit from which discharged A.S.C.
Badge Number 289532
Date of Enlistment 29-Sep-1914
Date of Discharge 19-Jul-1916
Cause of Discharge Army OrderII/1917. Para. 2.(d). Para. 392(xvi) King's Regulation Sickness
Whether served overseas Yes
Date of Issue 02-Jan-1918
Age 49
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection First World War
Collections from Great Britain


EDIT: NO, other records with same regimental number show this chap to have been born Charleston, Norfolk Looks like no should have been 575 not 515.

Will leave up for elimination purposes.

kucinta
fred josephs nephew john a police man b 1880 spent 7 years in the royal welch 1898-1906 he came out and joined leeds police when WW1 broke out he was 34years old he asked to go to war they said no to old, by 1916 we did not have a lot of men left he asked again, they gave in and he was sent training soldiers he was given the rank of c s m witch was his rank in the royal welch the somme was going on and we lost a lot of men to cut a story short he said I want to go to war the said ok he went to the somme and others he came home 1919 a warrant officer first class back into the police with no loss of service came out a sergent after 25 years with a pension of £3 18s a week so I think age does not matter as they wanted men

Alviegal thank you.
all what is above nowing my family could be true except WW1 he be nearly 50
lies only go so far BUT 50??
if the above is true excluding WW1where is he he should be in 1911 census agnes says marr in 1901,but widow in 1911
john

I'm struggling to find a birth for Fred Harper.

There is a birth in Bradford but that's a different person as the parents on the baptism are Henry and Emily

Do you have his birth certificate?

On his marriage record, he just plain Frederick, no middle name

For ref:



West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name:Frederick Harper

Birth Year:abt 1865

Age:21

Marriage or Bann Date:29 Nov 1886

Parish:Ilkley

Father's Name:John Harper

Spouse's Name:Agnes Ann Fell

Spouse's Father's Name:Charles Fell



His fathers probate


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:John Harper

Probate Date:25 May 1866

Death Date:30 Mar 1866

Death Place:Yorkshire, England

Registry:Wakefield

To Hannah Harper, widow. Effects under £300

I wonder if this is Fred



West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910


Name:Harper

Parish:Guiseley, St Oswald

Baptism Date:Nov 1865

Father's Name:Harper <<Innkeeper

Mother's name:Harper


Never come across a baptism with a given name?

The occupation on this doesn't seem to fit but thought I'd post it even if just to eliminate:

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns - Deaths & Burials Transcription

First Name Frederick Joseph
Last Name Harper
Date of Death 25 Mar 1908
Date Of burial 26 Mar 1908
Year Of Birth 1867
Age 41
Place Sewree
Presidency -
Archive Reference -
Folio -
Page 178

This man was a Supdt Measurer at the Chamber of Commerce. Died of Acute Lobar Pneumonia.

No family info.

On that 1865 baptism above, every entry on the double pages is incomplete (EDIT: The whole register is the same). Looks like a register may have been badly damaged and someone has copied down the parts of the information that was legible.

gins
Your right that's his birth.
Freds dad was john harper he was the pub landlord of the regents hotel, john died there 1866 the road was called green bottom, now its new road guiseley the pub is still there [nice pint too].
No I don't have his birth cert, St oswalds is there church a lot of harper are buried there , this john harper is my g/g g/dadsometime in the late 1800s the family went back to the weeton/dunkeswik/ harewood they have been harpers there for 100s of years at least 1672 when my 789/times g/dad was b francis, there is NO conection with the low Harrogate /pannel harpers.
I have a gut feeling that you Marie and kucinta are rignt BUT WHICH ONE I would go for the boar war but ??
regards to you all john

RE the Boer war one , does it seem likely your Frederick was a bugler though? The record says he 'returned with Company', which I take to mean he survived. Also no second forename recorded.

I have to admit I find Marie Celeste's India death interesting...

Re the Imperial Yeomanry

"The Imperial Yeomanry was a British volunteer cavalry regiment that mainly saw action during the Second Boer War. Officially created on 24 December 1899, the regiment was based on members of standing Yeomanry regiments, but also contained a large contingent of mid-upper class English volunteers. In Ireland 120 men were recruited in February 1900. It was officially disbanded in 1908.

On 13 December 1899, the decision to allow volunteer forces serve in the Second Boer War was made. Due to the string of defeats during Black Week in December, 1899, the British government realized they were going to need more troops than just the regular army, thus issuing a Royal Warrant on 24 December 1899. This warrant officially created the Imperial Yeomanry.

The Royal Warrant asked standing Yeomanry regiments to provide service companies of approximately 115 men each. In addition to this, many British citizens (usually mid-upper class) volunteered to join the new regiment. Although there were strict requirements, many volunteers were accepted with substandard horsemanship/marksmanship; however, they had significant time to train while awaiting transport.

The first contingent of recruits contained 550 officers, 10371 men with 20 battalions and four companies, which arrived in South Africa between February and April, 1900. Upon arrival, the regiment was sent throughout the zone of operations."

There is this apparent Boer war death. But no knowing what forename is, could be Francis for instance:

First Name F
Last Name HARPER
Country SOUTH AFRICA
Year Range 1899-1902
Regiment -
Page 361
Record Source GRO Natal & South African Forces Death (1899 to 1902)
Record set British nationals armed forces deaths 1796-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain


Name: F Harper
Casualty Type: Died
Casualty Date: 13 May 1900
Casualty Place: Bloemfontein
Rank: Private
Force: South Africa Field Force
Regiment: Worcestshire Regiment
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Number: 3726

Birth reg Joseph Thackray Harper O/N/D 1864 9a 139.Info off www.wharfegen.org.uk

Maryb

hi all
Its the same again what I found on fred I thought I had found him in wakefield,aother lady was looking for the same man[why I asked her she said she enjoyed doing family trees] she could not give a reason I looked and checked. but found for some reason it was not him.
I would like to know but I now know I will never find out what happened to Frederick, like I said before I have phoned up some of agnes,s family, I will go to settle/gigglswick very soon as its only 30 miles from me and it is a really nice place I have phone numders and addresses and as I have said they are there the fells they are the local butchers and when I spoke to them they seamed nice but what I would like to do if you nice people don't mind is tell me your gut feeling WHAT DO YOU THINK.
to me its not to get certs ,or records he was the uncle of my g/dad and I just wanted to know.
thank you all very much
kind regards john harper ;-) ;-)

Hi John,

I have a couple of certificates that I assume aren't my rellies. I get a little excited and buy a certificate in case I find a connection to my tree. English Certificates are much cheaper than Australian certificates. I have a birth certificate of JOHN HARPER born 26 January 1863 at Thorpe, Suffolk, son to John Harper and Sarah formerly STEGGALL.
Death Certificate of a STEPHEN HARPER, 89 years old, father of a John Harper. Stephen died 3rd February 1892 at Thorpe, Suffolk.
I have a Death Certificate of a HARRIET HARPER, 58 years old who died at Semer Workhouse, Hadleigh, Suffolk on 19 March 1892. The informant was the Master of the workhouse, C. Grayson.
If you know any of these and don't have the certficates, you are welcome to them. I cannot use Genes, I find it so frustrating, so if you want anything I would prefer to email as I can use that.

My great grandfather was Harry Alfred Harper born 20 Dec 1860 at Cockfield, and married to Mary Ann Louisa Bere. Mary Ann Louisa died at Romford Union Workhouse in 1899 and their 3 boys, Alfred, Harry and Owen were at the workhouse in 1901 and their sister, Lilian Maud, may have been living with other children at a nurses house. Harry Alfred was mentioned on her death certificate as working at Beckton Gasworks and haven't found a thing on him since. He was in the military till his marriage in April 1890. My father didn't know his father but knew his and his grandparents names. Owen George Harper - haven't found anything on him since the 1901 census when he was a 4 year old at the workhouse. Lilian Maud Harper have nothing concrete on her either. There are a lot of Lilian Maud Harpers but I have no idea which could be my Lilian. I have birth certificates for the 4 kids which proves my connection. My grandfather 'Harry Charles Harper' came to Australia in 1912. I hope I can be of help to you.
Lois

Lois
Thankyou very much,my family came from west riding Yorkshire so I think they are no good to me. BUT if you ever want help over here in Britain just ask me and if I can i will help you,
if you do need help put in name dates where they lived.
My family came from otley/weeton area in Yorkshire.
regards john harper