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I know, from his marriage to Maria Williams, that Charles' father was one Thomas Fry b. about 1804, probably in Wiltshire. Charles was in Monmouthshire with stepfather William Harris, mother Frances (nee Francis) and half-sisters at time of 1841 census and his birthplace is given in one census as Yetton in Somerset and also Monmouthshire but Hullavington comes up more than once so most likely right. Here's the snag: Fry seems to have been a popular name in Wiltshire and there was more than one Thomas, of same vintage and more than one Charles- had high hopes with a Charles b. 1824, mother Sarah but then found Sarah Fry, widowed, in Wiltshire and Charles et al with her - when I know my 2x gt.grandad was def. in Monmouthshire in 1841! I need the right Thomas Fry to get any further back and to know if Frances was Charles mother or, as I suspect, his stepmother. Any suggestions would be warmly received as all my usual ideas when I'm stuck have failed - so far!

If Charles was with a stepfather in 1841, his father must have died, or else his mother was a bigamist

Marriages Sep 1837 (>99%)
EVERSON George Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
********FRY Frances Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
********HARRIS William Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
JONES John Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
LEWIS Jane Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
REES William Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
THOMAS Margaret Newport 26 107 Scan available - click to view
WILLIAMS Elizabeth Newport 26 107

Thomas Fry
England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
birth: 1785
burial: 1 March 1835 Wiltshire, England


Thomas Fry
England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
burial: 27 January 1837 Ramsbury, Wiltshire, England

Can I ask how you know your Charles was in Monmothshire in 1841
and how do you know his mother was Frances ( no relationships given in 1841)



Not seeing a baptism for son of Thomas and Frances

Is this not him ?

Name:
Charles Fry

Baptism Date:26 Sep 1824

Baptism Place:Hullavington, Wiltshire, England

Father Thomas Fry
Mother: Sarah

What leads you to think this is your Charles ?

1841 - Monmouthshire

William Harris 30 -...... not born in county
Frances Harris 30 - Monmouthshire
Charles Fry 10 -..... not born in county
Emma Harris 2 = Monmouth
Ann Harris 1 - Monmouth


children's age were not rounded down so this Charles's age is out

Hello Susan and welcome to the Community Boards.




Note: I will let Susan know that she has replies to her query :-)

Marriages Sep 1859 (>99%)
Fry Charles Newport M 11a 230
Williams Maria Newport M 11a 230

The 1841 age is 'out' by not much more than a year, if the child was born in 1829

1851
First Name CHARLES
Last Name FRY
Relationship SON
Condition -
Gender Male
Age 22
Year Of Birth 1829
Occupation -
Birth Place -
Birth Town YETTON
Birth County SOMERSET
House Number -
House Name PENYWAIN CROOSEMULCH
Street -
Town -
Parish LANTARNAM
City -
County Monmouthshire
-
Registration District NEWPORT
Archive Reference HO107
Piece Number 2453
Folio 229
Page 34

Other Household Members
First Name Last Name Relationship Age Year Of Birth Birth Town
ELLIN HARRIS DAUGHTER 2 1849 LANTR Image Transcription
EMMA HARRIS DAUGHTER 12 1839 LANTR Image Transcription
FANNY HARRIS DAUGHTER 6 1845 LANTR Image Transcription
FRANCES HARRIS HEAD 47 1804 CAERLEON Image Transcription
RUTH HANNAH HARRIS DAUGHTER 9 1842 LANTR Image Transcription

It would be a wise move to get the Fry/Harris marriage cert.............to ensure that Fry was not the woman's maiden name.

She is clearly Charles's mother, but...............

................the father's name on Charles's cert could be imaginary

Big thank-you to everyone who replied although nothing new to really help me there! I know I have the correct Charles Fry (birth c. 1829) in Monmouthshire with his full/ half sisters and his mother/stepmother and stepfather, 1841 census and I have the correct Charles Fry (I have been doing this searching for some years, so am very careful before putting anything into my tree!) in succeeding census returns, also have marriage certificate for Charles and Maria, married, as Reggie posted, 1859. I have been in contact with members descended from Frances Harris who have confirmed that her maiden name was Francis, not Fry, so I know I am on the right track there! It was disappointing to find Charles Fry, b. 1824, in Wiltshire, with his mother (presumably widowed) as I had had hopes that perhaps, if an error had been made re. dates of birth, I could be close to finding more Fry relatives - never mind! I will get the Fry-Harris marriage certificate, as you suggested,Reggie, as they can be useful with witnesses names often leading to more family members but like to wait till I have a few to send for (having same problems my mum's mother's mother - can't find her in censuses with own parents and two couples, same part of Lancashire, with same first names!)

More later as have to dash out now!

Thanks again,
Susan

Can you ask your contact(s) how they know that Frances had surname Francis at birth?

As there is no apparent marriage beteween her and Fry online, one would think that they have a copy of the Fry/Harris marriage cert, with her father's name included

If so, you could avoid forking out for a copy.............

Hi to All,

Started writing again, went back to look at something and my second reply disappeared! Now, where was I? Was wondering, Ricochet, where the scans are available that you show in this thread? Is it somewhere you have to pay for a membership, pay-to-view, or a free site? Reggie, I haven't heard from the lady who contacted me, a descendent of the Harrises, for over a year but will try her again as it would save money if she has all the details.

For the time being, I am staying with the approximate birthdate of 1829, though I know it must be a little before or after and Hullavington because it comes up several times, whereas Yetton, Somerset only appears that once, in 1851. Of course, Yetton COULD be correct - my taid (grandad) led us all to believe the family came from Six Bells, Abertillery, when in fact Charles' son, William and wife, Elizabeth (Rickards) had moved to Lancashire and all their children were born in Wigan and Leigh!

Back to searching - the Rickards are giving me just as many problems because Elizabeth's father, John, gives his father as Thomas Thomas on the marriage certificate and I do not know if Rickards was a stepfather's name, or his mother's maiden name and she never married Thomas Thomas! Oh well - keeps me occupied now my Open University stuff is finished - and I can switch to my late husband's tree if I get fed-up with my elusive rellies!

Please keep chucking your ideas at me, everyone and again sorry I hadn't replied straightaway but I work 15-hour shifts, sometimes with sleep-ins and no chance to get on the internet and check my messages!

Thanks again and good luck with your own searches!
Susan

Hi Susan

The marriage was from freebmd

The burials are on familysearch, also a free site

Rick

Hi Rick - thanks for reply. I had a look in my keepsafe as I couldn't find printed copy and here we are: Monmouthshire Marriages, William Harris m Frances Fry of Newport, St.Woolos, 7th day of August, 1837. Groom's father was Charles Harris and Bride's father, William Francis. As it was from the year general records started, I should be able to get a copy if still needed, to get names of witnesses. It is a mystery that I haven't been able to find a birth record for 'my' Charles Fry but the parish records are not complete and people did get into a muddle about where they were born and dates. The actor Charlie Chaplin never did find his birth record, in London and I was much amused to see, when looking for a later Charles Fry for my tree, that a Charles Chaplin Fry came up, born in London and I think it was same year! Not my ancestor but it did get me wondering... :-) I found a lot with FreeBMD and still use them when I need to try searching one surname against another but Genes has got me further back - and connected me to my mum's second cousin who helped me take one family line back a very long way! I haven't come across familysearch before so thanks for the tip - maybe look for more Fry deaths to give me some clues for further searching.

Susan

Hello Susan........I guess this is the marriage of your William and Elizabeth?


Marriage: 20 Feb 1886 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
William Fry - 26, Collier, Bachelor, Ladies Lane
Elizabeth Rickards - 27, Spinster, Ladies Lane
Groom's Father: Charles Fry, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Rickards, Labourer
Witness: William Sharp; Elizabeth Sharp
Married by Banns by: F.Howell Tucker, Curate
Register: Marriages 1880 - 1891, Page 123, Entry 245
Source: LDS Film 93750


(Funnily enough, I will be travelling down Ladies Lane in about 30 mins. :-D)

The exact same ones, Cynthia! And those Rickards and Sharps have given me nearly as much trouble as the Frys because the Sharps have added an 'e' at times and census transcribers have seen Rickards as Richards all too many times.

William and Elizabeth Sharp might have been a maternal uncle and aunt but possibly also cousins. Elizabeth's mother was married as Diana but appears as Dianna and Hannah Rickards, or even Richards! in the census records.

More searches of birth records today, for Charles Fry, have done nothing except give me wrist-ache - even tried looking with just the surname, and in various places but no-go! I think that, for now, I may just have to give up and hope that, at some point, my tree is linked with someone who DOES have more but there are so few of us, really, descendents of William Fry and Elizabeth Rickards, that it seems unlikely. Charles father, Thomas, must obviously have had parents, perhaps siblings, other relatives but without Charles true birthplace I am, for the moment, stumped!
Giving the wrist a rest and then maybe do a search for someone else later on - the housework can wait a bit! :-D

Susan

It would be interesting if you were related to the late Wigan artist Gerald Rickards! :-D