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I will be going down and stopping in Chesterfield in the next couple of months so hopefully will get his phone number then.

Thanks
Sue

My great aunt was adopted back in 1912 - and there were no official records, but family knew about it, it was a private arrangement. As rootgatherer says, these were quite often arrangements within the family - but who knows which, if any, of the siblings of Mary and Herbert gave up a child.

Maybe, if you really want to know, contact her son still living in same area?

Rootgatherer and Flip.

Flip thanks for that orbituary.it has a lovely photo of Ida.

Taken a copy of it all.

And Herberts father was Reuben on the mariiage cert. and it is possible that Ihave mistaken the I for a J as it's a fancy I and very small writing.

Rootgatherer,Thats my grandparents with Mary and the rest of the family they livd round Holmsfield,Brampton,Cutthorpe and Newbold all their lives.

I suppose anything is possible where children and family are.

That obituary says Ida had lived in Holmsfield all her life. Mary Ann's parents are there in 1911.

Before the days of official adoption, if the parents were unable to raise the child often a relative did. I am wondering if Ida was the child of a cousin of Herbert or Mary Ann.

1911

Name: Alfred Higginbottom
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Brampton, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Holmesfield
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: Cartledge Holmesfield Sheffield
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coul Miner Hewer
Registration district: Chesterfield
Registration District Number: 438
Sub-registration district: Dronfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 21170
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Higginbottom 50
Catherine Higginbottom 44
Mary Higginbottom 24
Alfred Higginbottom 13
Horrie Higginbottom 8
John Higginbottom 4


Married 24 years, 8 children born, 7 living, 1 had died

Good find that obituary Flip! We now know that she was born 1923. Wonder if the candle lit was on her birthday 4th. February?

Not unusual for a widower to state bachelor when he married again. Two of my G Grandfathers did that, even although they had children from their first marriage.

I think you are right about the signatures on the death entries Flip - one and the same person.

Actually, going back to the death registrations - are you sure it says J M Sharpe on Herbert's death? Could it possibly be I M Sharpe, before her marriage - it's easy for them to be mis-read?

Hi Sue, does he name his father on the marriage or state occupation? Sort of expecting his father is Reuben.

Flip and Rootgatherer

Thanks for both your input.

I will have to be patient until the marriage cert comes to get Ida's age from cert.

Thanks for the 1911 census which shows him married to Eliza.

What has thrown me is on the marriage cert for Mary and Herbert,Herbert has put batchelor not Widower.

Will let you know next week what age Ida was .

Sorry, but I think this is Ida's obituary, meaning she was born c1925:

http://announce.jpress.co.uk/33485991?s_source=jpno_dtj

No, you're right it is relevant - they had no children after 7 years of marriage, which is unusual going back then! So could be relevant as to why we can't find any children to the second marriage? Just a thought....

Yes, I was Flip. I posted it for reference while I looked to see if there were any children born before his first wife's death. Thought there may have been as he remarried quite quickly as often happens if the widower has young children.

But, alas you're right as I can't find any children, it is irrelevant.

If we are ok with that, I'll leave it to show we've tried that route. :-)

Not sure how that is relevant rootgatherer? I think Mary's parents were Kate & Alfred - on 1891 with Mary and son Peter.

OOPS, need to read the post before putting my clog in ;-) You were looking at the husband, sorry

1911

Name: Herbert Sharpe
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Dronfield Woodhave, Derbyshire, England
[Dronfield Woodhouse, Derbyshire, England]
Civil Parish: Dronfield
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: 8 Stoops Lane Dronfieldyd High St Dronfield
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner Hewer
Registration district: Chesterfield
Registration District Number: 438
Sub-registration district: Dronfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 21167
Household Members:
Name Age
Herbert Sharpe 29
Eliza Sharpe 29


Name: Eliza Sharpe
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Registration Year: 1912
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 30
Registration district: Chesterfield
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 714

It could be likely they were adopted, like you, I can't see any births.

Ivy M Branson was on the ERs until 2012 in Dronfield, Derbyshire - she may have died or just opted out. However one of her children (Graham) is on the 2014 ER in Dronfield, and in the phone book.

Flip,

Thanks for your input.

Mary is my Dad's sister,
Mary was born Titlow in JUNE qtr 1887 Dad was born after grandma and grandad got married 5th September 1887.
Dad was born December 1888.


Roy Branson married IDA M Sharpe in Chesterfield in 1951.
Even taking 18 off 1951 that makes Ida born around 1933 at the latest and even if she was 22 that means born 1929.

My aunt Mary was born 1887 so maybe she did adopt..

Thanks

If Roy Branson who married Ivy in Chesterfied, also died in Chesterfield in 1995 then his dob was 2/8/1925, so maybe she was of a similar age? - that would make her born a long time after the parents marriage. You'll have to wait for the marriage certificate to get their ages though.

There are no Sharpe/Higginbottom births that I can see, even using phonetic searches.

Not sure how you have got back to her, but is there a possibility she was previously married?

Added: although like you say adoption did not become official until 1927 - it still happened before this, but was not recorded or legalised. There were private arrangements not controlled by legistlation.

I have an aunt Mary A Higginbottom that married Herbert Sharpe in 1913,,

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)

~~~Higginbottom Mary A Sharpe Chesterfield 7b 1644

Knight Francis J Sharpe Chesterfield 7b 1644

Sharpe Eliza J Wright Chesterfield 7b 1644

~~~~Sharpe Herbert Higginbottom Chesterfield 7b 1644

Wright Francis J Sharpe Chesterfield 7b 1644


I have got the marriage cert and also Mary(1952) and Herbert's(1945) death certs

On the death cert for Herbert it says Informant J M Sharpe Daughter

On Mary's death cert it says Informant Ida M Branson Daughter

I have sent for the marriage cert of Ida M and R Branson in 1951 which won't arrive until 19th September.

Now this is where the problem is....I cannot for the life of me find any births for Sharpe/Higginbottom anywhere in England.

Seeing as adoption wasn't legalised until 1927 adoption is out..

I am wondering if SKS would have a look at births for me to try and find them as I would like to send for their birth certs..

Thanks in Advance.