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Hello

I'm been trying to determine who my gr gr grandfather was for over thirty years and am stuck.

As it is a common name and there is no middle name either I have reached the nearest hit which I would like some help with.

He could be William Allen born at Ashby magna Leics on 2nd March 1813. He and his family seemed to have moved to Edmondthorpe Leics where he was christened on 18th November 1813.

If I can get confirmation that this is the same person I could move on.

The William at Edmondthorpe may be my gr gr grandfather who married Frances Huddleston in Leicester in 1835 and a son, also William in 1838. Frances was born in Wymondham, a village close by in 1815 and died there in 1841

I am hoping that with your help I can piece these bits together and proove that these three Williams as being the same person

I don't know or where my gr gr grandfather. died.but sorting out the above may lead me on to finding out.

Thank you

Will Allen

William Allen
England Births and Christenings
Name William Allen
Gender Male
Christening Date 18 Nov 1813
Christening Place EDMONDTHORPE,LEICESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name William Allen
Mother's Name Ann

Did Wiilliam remarry after Frances died ?

Have you found him on any later census after she died?

William Allen
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 24 December 1835 St. Mary'S, Leicester, Leicester, England
spouse: Frances Huddlestone

there are a lot of william allan marriages about the above date

Welcome to the Community boards Will.



(I'll let Will know how to find his replies) :-)

Hello William, there are so many William Allens!

To help us trace him, please can you let us know who your Gt.grandfather was (son of the William in question).

Do you have him on any census? Do you have his marriage certificate? If so, what occupation does he give for his father? And who are the witnesses?

Thank you for very promising replies. I am now down to just William Allen's to connect up.

I have the following details about the William christened at Edmondthorpe in November 1813 ( Parents William and Ann from Ashby magna)

in the census of 1841 for Edmondthorpe we have the whole family

William born 1786 age 55 Publican
Ann 1781 age 60
Sarah 1811 age 30
Rebecca 1821 age 20
William 1838 age 3 ( This could be my gr grandfather whose mother
Frances had died in 1841)
This missing members of the family are William 1816 (not 1813?) John 1818 possibly working away from home and Mary 1804 age 47 now Mary Osborn living in Wymondham

In the 1851 census living in Church street Scalford is William Allen aged 35 years. agricutural labourer born Edmondthorpe (which again puts his birth date at 1816 rather than 1813)

However, he is living with Ann age 22 years born North Luffenham and William his son born Leicester occupation servant aged 13 years which ties up with him losing his mother at the age of 3.

I have the wedding certificate

June 28th 1847 in the parish church of North Luffenham in the county of rutland

the marriage between William Allen age 32 Widower. labourer residence North Luffenham and Ann THompson age 22 Spinster, servant same residence

Father's name William Allen and Thomas Thompson both described as labourers

Witnesses John Allen Sarah Thompson and John Bolland


Is this the same William who married Frances Huddleston(e) in 1835 was father to my gr grandfather William Born 1838 and widowed in 1841. It looks also that he must have been present at his sons wedding in 1859.

He has been a very illusive ancestor but maybe with your help it can be determined that this is is the same William and I can go on to find out when and where he died.

Thank you for your help so far.

Best Wishes

Will

Is it possible to compare William's signature on his marriage certificates, or has he signed with an X? Also, you would need to see the originals at the Leicester archives. Maybe that's not possible for you.

I'm inclined to agree with your idea that your William Allen was the one born in Edmondthorpe.

Fathers don't usually sign the birth certificate, so that could be the registrar's writing.

It's not at all unusual for 'deceased' not to be added to a father's name on a marriage certificate. Maybe your William was the William Allen who died in Melton Mowbray Apr-Jun 1859 (pre his son's marriage)

I've not been able to find a suitable Ann on the 1861 census either. There are two possible deaths for her in Melton Mowbray. 1852 and 1860

What a pity we can't find anything more positive

An afterthought - Do you know who the witnesses to the Fraces Huddlestone marriage were?

Hello Christina

I have just received the two death certificates for the two William Allen's who died at Melton Mowbray.

Neither gave any new information and the ages and witnesses were not related to the William I am still looking for.

By chance I looked at the prison records 1770 =1935 and found a William Allen tried at Leicester Court on the 1st August 1851 and convicted of sheep stealing. He was given a 10year sentence and transported.

There was also a letter referred to by the clerk that William had claimed there had been a mistake and that the term of sentence was 8 years.

There are no personal details about him but there are various reference numbers given.

Do you know what body would have these records?

Hello Will,

I'm afraid the more I look for your William Allens, the more elusive they become.

Reading more about the sheep stealer (on Ancestry - trial in 1848) I see that his age is given as 21. So it's unlikely that he was one of yours.

Also, there's a newspaper death notice on Find My Past - Leicestershire October 1844
"At Edmondthorpe, far advanced in years, Mr. William Allen, for many years landlord of the Horse and Groom Inn."

The only one who is a publican on the 1841 is the one you have as a possible. He would have been 60 years old in 1844 (not really far advanced in years, even in those times). I can't see any elderly William Allen living in Edmondthorpe on the 1841 census though.

IF he is the one who died in 1844, that, unfortunately, would rule him out as being your Gt.x 3 grandfather, as he was described as a labourer on son William's 1847 marriage certificate. Or else it rules out the marriage to Ann Thompson.

Back to the drawing board.

There are these two possibles for the 1844 death - if the newspaper got the date of his death wrong!

Deaths Sep 1844 (>99%)
ALLEN William Melton Mowbray 15 134

Deaths Mar 1845 (>99%)
ALLEN William Melton Mowby 15 169

The newspaper was dated October 1844, so it must have been the September one.

I've only just noticed that the 3 year old William, with the publican in 1841, has Not Born in County