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I can't find out where Mary Matilda and Florence went, nor can I find mary Matilda in either 1901 or 1911

London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930

Name: John Cutts
Discharge Date: 4 Sep 1893
Discharge Age: 5
Record Type: Discharge
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Title: Newington Workhouse, Westmoreland Road Register, 1893

John was discharged to Champion Hill

The children seem to have been in and out of the workhouse from about 1893

Records from ancestry

London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930

Name: Florence Cutts
Birth Date: 1889
Admission Age: 4
Admission Date: 30 Aug 1893
Record Type: Admission
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Place: London, England
Title: Christ Church Workhouse Register, 1892-1894

Mary. Matilda, John and Florence all transferred from St George's

Name: Florence Cutts
Discharge Date: 30 Aug 1893
Discharge Age: 4
Record Type: Discharge
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Title: Saint George's Workhouse, Mint Street Register, 1893

Florence only shown. Discharged by order of Ch.Ch.Workhouses


Name: Florence Cutts
Discharge Date: 1 Sep 1893
Discharge Age: 4
Record Type: Discharge
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Title: Christ Church Workhouse Register, 1892-1894

John. Florence and Mary all discharged to St george's

Name: Florence Cutts
Birth Date: 1889
Admission Age: 4
Admission Date: 1 Sep 1893
Record Type: Admission
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Place: London, England
Title: Newington Workhouse, Westmoreland Road Register, 1893

Transferred with John (b. 1888) and Mary Matilda (b.1886). All were CofE. They were admitted from St George's.



Now this one is interesting .......... it begins on Aug 30 1893 when John Cutts, Horse Keeper, and the 3 children are ALL admitted

Name: Florence Cutts
Birth Date: abt 1889
Admission Age: 4
Admission Date: 30 Aug 1893
Discharge Date: 30 Sep 1893
Record Type: Admission and Discharge
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Place: London, England
Title: Saint George's Workhouse, Mint Street Register, 1892-1895

Father John absconded on 20 September, leaving the 3 children to be transferred Christ Church Workhouse on the 30th

Before you condemn it as harsh, do remember that the owrkhouse was the only place where poor people could get free medical care.

Also remember that by this point, the Cutts marriage had apparently broken down, not unusual then and far from unusual these days. The only unusual aspect is that the husband apparently had custody of them.

Thus, if the children were put into care, it was their father who did it.

If this information is correct, then it seems a bit harsh for Emma to have children who are paupers and in workhouse and then to go on and have another two. I will research this link further. Thank you for your help.

It does put into double the information I was lead to believe that Emma Hinton my great grandmother was Irish and a opera singer but this is why I was researching this side to corroberate or disprove the information.

Births Dec 1887
Cutts James John St. Saviour 1d

Births Mar 1888
CUTTS Florence St. Saviour 1d 107

Births Jun 1886
CUTTS Mary Matilda St. Saviour 1d 30
?? matches dob March 1886 on baptism record


this looks like the daughter Florence in 1901

Name: Florence Cutts
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Pauper Child (Pauper)
Birth Place: Southwark, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London


this looks like son John in 1901

Name: John Cutts
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Workhouse Child (Workhouse)
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Hanwell
Town: Hanwell
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Acton
ED, institution, or vessel: Central London District Schools

That's not a fer sure Paula, but I think Emma Hinton who married James Cutts is a pretty good bet for your Emma. :-)

One thing to do would be to try to find descendants of that couple's children ... a bit of a tall order ... and see whether they know the couple's story


Births Dec 1864
Hinton Emma Camberwell 1d 511

Births Mar 1861
CUTTS James Henry St Geo East 1c 434

two people here at genesreunited do have in their trees:

James Cutts 1861 Bethnal Green London


Births Dec 1886
Cutts Matilda Hannah Lambeth 1d 339

Births Mar 1889
Cutts Florence Lambeth 1d 367

I don't see them in trees here

EDIT - I don't think those are right ... the census says they were born in Newington, and the Matilda born in Lambeth seems to belong to an Edward Cutts in the 1891 and 1901 censuses

so I'm deleting the possible marriage info I had originally put here, to await further investigation


it certainly is a little odd for Emma Hinton Cutts Lee to have had two children named Florence

:-) Gosh the repsonse and information is amazing. Thank you.

Florence Emma Lee born 17/7/1894, died 7/3/1973 (my grandmother). Have copy of birth certificate - Henry Lee grocers packer, Emma Lee formerly Hinton, address 32 Larcom St Walworth.

Baptised 3/8/1894 St John the Evangelist, Walworht, address 2 Larcom st, Henry was a packer.

married 31/10/15 age 20 to Alfred Coppad, All Saints Church, Batterseas (I have followed this side of the tree OK), Henry Lee - packer.

I have found Jessie Lee sibling born 1897 Lambeth parents Henry and Emma, Apr- Jun Volume 1d page 307. Baptism 157/1898 Upper Tooting, Holy Trinity, Wandsworth. Henry - packer at stores.

Traced Henry in 1911, 1901,1891, 1881 and 1851 Censuses, previously married to Sarah who died in 1988.

It seem Edith E Lee born 1882 was at home in 1901 and 1911 Census so prehaps looked after the young children - florence emma and jessie.

The question remains where to look for Emma Lee formerly Hinton?

(his Parents 1841 are in in Northwold, Norfolk)

Chris :)

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Northwold
Church name St Andrew
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 981
Baptism date 29 Aug 1841
Person forename Sarah
Person sex F
Person abode Northwold
Father forename William
Father surname LEE
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Mary
Mother surname CLARKE


County Suffolk
Place Lakenheath
Church name All Saints
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 48
Marriage date 28 Feb 1841
Groom forename William
Groom surname LEE
Groom age full age
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom occupation Blacksmith
Bride forename Mary Ann
Bride surname CLARK
Bride age minor
Bride condition Spinster
Groom father forename Joseph
Groom father surname LEE
Groom father occupation Glover
Bride father forename Henry
Bride father surname CLARK
Bride father occupation Labourer
Witness1 forename Henry
Witness1 surname MUSSON

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above link)


Cambridgeshire Burials Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) William
Last name Lee
Birth year 1813
Death year 1849
Age 36
Burial year 1849
Burial date 03 Nov 1849
Parish March
County Cambridgeshire
Notes cholera


Deaths Dec 1849 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Lee William North Witchford 14 99


Deaths Mar 1884 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Lee Mary Ann 60 North Witchford 3b 363


21 June 1856 - Cambridge Independent Press - Cambridge, Cambridgeshire

Sessions and Police Intelligence.
MARCH. June 17.—(Before the Rev. Algernon Peyton and F. D. Fryer, Esq.) - Mary Ann Lee, of March, charged Jane Bond, with assaulting her. It appeared from the evidence that one was bad as the other, and the Magistrates dismissed the case, the defendant paying the costs 5s.

Yes, I think it is the one and same

Just asking if Henry you found 1851, was Harry, in March, Cambs?...(Father William, Mother Mary Ann Clark)

Chris :)


Births Mar 1850 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Lee Harry Nth Witchford 14 144

(also on below)

https://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm


edits (notes on 1881 Birthplace Chatteris given for Sarah, so not far from March)

Marriage of James Cutts to Emma Hinton ...........


London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: James Henry Cutts
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Age: 24
Spouse: Emma Hinton
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Oct 1885
Parish: St Mary Magdalene, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Cutts
Spouse Father: William Henry Hinton
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

James
Bachelor
Occupation:- Hostler
Address:- 17 Jabius (??) Buildings, John Street
Father occupation:- Deceased

Emma
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 39 The Garden (??), Pimlico
Father occupation:- Cotton Spinner

Witnesses:- Charles Whitby and Jane Maria Cutts

OK!

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: James John Cutts
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1889
Father's name: James Henry Cutts
Mother's name: Emma Cutts
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Mark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born:- 12 September 1887
Address:- 123 Barlow St
Father occupation:- Hostler


Name: Matilda Cutts
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1889
Father's name: James Henry Cutts
Mother's name: Emma Cutts
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Mark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born:- 13 March 1886
Address:- 123 Barlow Street
Father occupation:- Hostler


can't see baptism for Florence.


James' occupation on the 1891 Census ......... Ostler, Inn

re the 1891 Census for James Cutts ..............


there are 3 grandchildren living with them. The question is ........... whose children are they?

Name Age
Jane Cutts 52
Thomas Cutts 19
Matilda Cutts 5 b.ca 1886, Newington, London, Grandaughter
James Cutts 30
John Cutts 3 b.ca 1888, Newington, Grandson Father James
Florence Cutts 2 b.ca 1889, Newington, Granddaughter, Father James

well found, Joonie!

I think the question was whether it was the right birth certificate :-)

so the question is whether Paula is sure that is the right family - Henry originally married to Sarah, with those various children

do you know that independently of the birth certificate Paula?

for instance do you know other members of Florence's family, is where that Florence was born the area the family comes from, did she name Henry as her father when she married ... ?

This looks the Florence Emily born in the December quarter 1894, and registered in Hackney

1901

Name: Florence E Lee
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: James W Lee
Mother: Emma Lee
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Search Photos: Search for 'Hackney' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke Homerton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: South-East Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 07

Piece: 230
Folio: 27
Page Number: 45
Household schedule number: 306

James W Lee 47 b.ca 1854, Hackney, Bin Plate Gds Worker
Emma Lee 46 b.ca 1855, Essex
Edith M Lee 19 b.ca 1882, Hackney, Factory Hand (Confectionery)
George H Lee 13 b.ca 1888, Hackney
Ethel Lee 8 b.ca 1893, Hackney
Florence E Lee 6
Josepha Lee 43 Brother, Widower, Furrier's Cutter

Address:- 47 Digby (?Rigby) Road

This looks like their marriage .............

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
Lee James William Hackney 1b 849
Thomason Emma Hackney 1b 849


Baptism of daughter Edith M??

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Edith May Lee
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Sep 1883
Father's name: William James Lee
Mother's name: Emma Lee
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hackney St Luke
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Address:- 47 Digby Street
Father occupation:- Tin Plate Worker


Unfortunately, I cannot find baptisms for Ethel and Florence.




BUT ............ it does seem that this is NOT the family, if the maiden name is shown as Hinton on the birth certificate. Thus, it answers Mike's question

hi Paula, no one here is related to you, we are all just paying members like yourself who have a thing for genealogy :-)

the location and first wife Sarah's age in the 1881 census (dob 1854) would match with this death possibly

Deaths Dec 1888
Lee Sarah 34 St. Olave 1d 132



I wonder about this Emma

Marriages Dec 1885
Cutts James Henry St. Saviour 1d 213
Hinton Emma St. Saviour 1d 213

(I ruled out the other couple on the page, together in 1911)

I can't find them together in 1891, 1901 or 1911
and I can't find him separately

Births Mar 1861
CUTTS James Henry St Geo East 1c 434

I suspect he is with parents James and Jane in Stepney in 1871

if he had run off, or they were otherwise estranged, she would not have been free to marry and could have lived with Mr Lee unmarried

aha, this is him in 1891

Name: James Cutts
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Jane Cutts
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London
Occupation: cab washer
>> Condition as to marriage: MARRIED, no wife in household
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road

so that does look like a possibility ...

I would suspect this is that Emma

Name: Emma Cutts
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Camberwell, London, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London
Occupation: laundress
>> Condition as to marriage: MARRIED
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road


if that were the case ... I don't see a death for that Emma as Cutts, or as Lee ... she might have left Mr Lee as well and by 1901 been living with someone else under his name ...

Paula ............


welcome to the Boards .................


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