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Hi I am looking for any info of the birth of Thomas John James in LLandebie, Carmarthen c 1879. I can't seem to find any births with John as a middle name, although the name is mentioned in all the census data. His father was Thomas James a Calvinistic minister and his mother was Margaret Vaughan. I'd be very grateful for any help as I'm also stuck of said father, Thomas James. It seems there were two ministers with the same name born in Llampumsaint c 1834. I have no idea of their parents names and haven't found a record yet of a marriage to Mgt Vaughan.

Not these?

EDIT: Based on marriage and 1881 census this first birth looks correct:

First name(s) THOMAS JOHN
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1878
Birth quarter 2
District LLANDILOFAWR
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 854

First name(s) THOMAS JOHN
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1879
Birth quarter 2
District CARMARTHEN
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 845

Welcome to the message boards!

Possible marriage?



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Dec 1875

JAMES Thomas Llandilofawr 11a 1287
Vaughan Margaret Llandilofawr 11a 1287

Andy

So the top birth looks likely- and just to confirm area- 1881 census:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Greenfield, Llandebie, Llandilofawr, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Thomas James Head Married Male 46 1835 Calvinistic Methodist Minister At Hendre Chapel Carmarthenshire,
Margaret James Wife Married Female 25 1856 - Llandebie, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Tom John James Son Single Male 2 1879 - Llandebie, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Sara Louisa James Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Llandebie, Carmarthenshire,
Margaret Evans Nurse Single Female 14 1867 Nurse Llandebie, Carmarthenshire,
------------------------------------------------

and matches district Sara Louisa was born:

First name(s) SARAH LOUISA
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1879
Birth quarter 3
District LLANDILOFAWR
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 788

I have been searching all day for that! Thank you so much.

Are there any signs in the same area of Thomas John James parents - THOMAS JAMES born c 1835 SARAH (I don't have a surname) born1856?

Hello Dmjs- I'm not sure what you mean- perhaps I'm reading it wrong. The parents of Thomas John James were Thomas James and Margaret Vaughan.

From what I can see Thomas James minister born Llanpumsaint is recorded twice on the 1871 census. I presume it's the same man- once as a visitor, and once as a lodger:

1871
Name: Thomas James
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanpumsaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llandebie
Town: Glyntay
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Registration district: Llandilofawr
Sub-registration district: Llandebie
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 5489 Folio: 26 Page Number: 2

Thomas Edward 32
Anne Edward 29
Hannah Edward 2
John Edward 6 Months
Jane Edward 13
Thomas James 37 Lodger Methodist Minister, Llanpumsaint, Carmarthenshire
---------------------------------------------------

1871
Name: Thomas James
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanpumsaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Tre lech AR Bettws
Ecclesiastical parish: St David
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Carmarthen
Sub-registration district: Conwil
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 5
Piece: 5504 Folio: 4 Page Number: 2

Name Age
William Evans 49
Sarah Evans 53
Theophilus Evans 16
Anne Evans 15
Sarah Evans 12
Sarah Rees 2
William Richards 2 Months
Thomas James 37 Visitor, Methodist Minister, Llanpumsaint, Carmarthenshire

No it's me. I think I'm going mad with all these names swimming around in my head. I can't believe how quickly you found the links. I have also just discovered that genes have some of the marriage certificates on line, which is amazing. If only they were all online. It's taken three weeks to receive the last lot of certificates I sent for.

The parents of Thomas John James are indeed Thomas James and Mgt. Vaughan. I was also looking for Thomas James Snr birth and parents but I found this difficult to know which minister was the correct Thomas James.

Sarah I was referring to was the mother of Mgt. Vaughan. Her father was John Vaughan and I think the mother was Sarah Rees but I will need to get Mgt's birth certificate first.

Sorry for sounding so garbbled in my message!

It hadn't occurred to me that it could be the same person recorded twice on census night.

I did find a reference to two Thomas James, both methodist ministers. One of them had a good report as a minister, the other one not so much :-(

There are quite a few ministers of varying descriptions with the name Thomas James in Wales, but I don't think there were two born around the same time from the same place. I did see this one (obviously not yours- but just shows how confusing it can all get!):

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Goring Road, Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Thomas James Head Married Male 52 1829 Calvinistic Methodist Minister Llansawel, Carmarthenshire
Ann James Wife Married Female 44 1837 Wife Of Minister Carmarthenshire, Wales
Gwilym P James Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Sarah Griffiths Servant Single Female 32 1849 Gen. Serv. (Domestic) Dowlais, Glamorgan,
--------------------------------------------------------

I have various things to do today, but I'll try and get back to this later.

Eek no not more of them. I will have to call it a night. I have so much to do tomorrow and this is so addictive. Thank you again for your help. It is most appreciated.

(did below relate somewhere?)


http://newspapers.library.wales/search/advanced

(in case anything, Newspapers)

Chris :)


Henry David Thomas Nicholas Obadias James! - Find Ancestors ...

www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1360124

27 May 2016 - 16 posts - ?7 authors
James Henry D T MMN Evans. Llanelly 11a. 2678. Can I ask how you know that he had all those names? Researching: Sundogs. Dmjs.

Error Thread does not exist

Yes Chris Ho. That's where I started but turns out the names Nicholas and Obadias were made up! I got side tracked on other lines but now I'm back to focusing on this. I've never searched Welsh ancestry before.

I can't see anything in the newspapers though.

Actually I have just found a reference to a bankruptcy in 1914 which could well be our Thomas. I'm told he died during WW1 which would have been shortly after this if it is our man. It is all quite sad really.

Until I receive the marriage certificate of Thomas James and Margaret Gwendoline Evans I can't really be sure of any of the other findings. Thomas John James could well be a completely different person who just happens to also be in the drapers/men's outfitter trade. Which means the father Thomas James, the minister, might not actually be his father at all!

Yes, best to work back then, with info. from Cert. (hopefully!)

(not seeing image for that one, Find My Past)

Chris :)

(when did they die, have you found them on 1939 Register. Find My Past)


Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
James Henry D T Evans Llanelly 11a 2678


Marriages Dec 1912 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
EVANS Margaret G James Carmarthen 11a 2481
JAMES Thomas Evans Carmarthen 11a 2481

I have Henry James on 1939 but not Mgt Gwendoline Evans. There are too many and I don't know her age, whether she married again or when she died. I have been told that Thomas James (Henry's dad and Mgts husband) died during WW1 but I am yet to find anything that I know for sure relates to him.

I have received Henry's birth certificate which is the one you have referenced above. I have also sent for the marriage certificate above but I think it will be another week before I receive it. It's taking about three weeks to get certificates to Australia.

Well it would seem that I was right off track so I am back to basics. I am sorry to have wasted your time.
I have the correct Henry David Thomas James born July 1913 in Cross hands, Carmarthen - parents Thomas James, occ. outfitter and Margaret Gwendoline Evans. They married in 1912 and both fathers were deceased at that time and both occupations were farmers (No sign of any Calvinist ministers!) Thomas James was also the name of Thomas's father - no mention of the middle name John anywhere.

I'm away to get a fresh piece of paper and start again ??

Any clue from Witness names, or an address?...

Chris :)