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This lady Elsie Owen n Watkins was my great grandmother.
I believe she was born in Hull in 1880 and then moved to Grimsby where she's on the 1901 Census with husband Charles.
I'm told she died suddenly circa 1913.
Can anyone help this newbie with where to look next?
Thanks
Elizabeth

For ref.



1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

4, Rosamond Street Kates Terrace, Holy Trinity and St Mary, Hull, Yorkshire, England



Charles Owen Head Married Male 25 1876 Fisherman Hull, Yorkshire, England
Elsie Owen Wife Married Female 21 1880 - Hull, Yorkshire, England
John Wilson Nephew - Male 7 1894 - Hull, Yorkshire, England

Welcome to the boards Elizabeth. When you say "where to look next" what is it you are looking for or want to know.

Looks like she's still in Hull in 1901

Yorkshire Marriages Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Elsie
Last name Watkins
Age 23
Birth year 1876
Marriage year 1899
Marriage date 31 Dec 1899
Marriage place Hull, St Barnabas
Residence 1 Division Road
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Watkins
Spouse's first name(s) Charles
Spouse's last name Owen
Spouse's age 25
Spouse's residence 70 Division Road
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Spouse's father's last name Owen
County Yorkshire (East Riding)
Country England
Archive East Riding Archives & Local Studies Service
Archive reference PE 149/23
Page 127
Record set Yorkshire Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

william watkins is deceased

Yorkshire Death indexes for the years: 1913

OWEN Elsie 40 Myton Hull MYT/32A/157

http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(above link can be useful, Yorks.)

Chris :)

Is this husband Charles in 1911 - although his place of birth shows Ireland not Hull as in 1901

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
127 Albert St Great Grimsby, Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
James Cook Head Married Male Labourer Lumper 39 1872 Essex
Sarah Ann Cook Wife Married Female - 36 1875 Market Rasen
May Priscilla Cook Daughter Single Female - 15 1896 Grimsby Lincolnshire
James Percy Cook Son - Male - 13 1898 Grimsby Lincolnshire
Caroline Elsie Cook Daughter - Female School 10 1901 Grimsby Lincolnshire
Ivy Gladys Cook Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Grimsby Lincolnshire
Daisy Lillian Cook Daughter - Female School 5 1906 Grimsby Lincolnshire
Doris Emily Cook Daughter - Female - 3 1908 Grimsby Lincolnshire
Charles Owen Lodger Maried Male Fisherman 35 1876 Belfast Ireland

1901 census shows age 21 so born 1879/80
1899 marriage shows age 23 so born 1875/6
Death shows age 40 so born 1872/3

Quite a difference!

Struggling to find her on any other census or a birth +/- a few years !

Wow thank you all for this help!
I'm just starting out with my search so your help is so valuable.

I'd like to know when and why Elsie died. I'm told she was young and my grandmother said her mother Elsie simply dropped dead in front of her circa 1913.
So sad but as yet unverified. Elsie hadn't long given birth to a son who was then
Adopted and never seen again.

Her husband Charles may have been killed in action in the Somme but I'm not sure if the Charles Owen in the military records is the same one.

So much to discover and learn. I'm just not sure how.

Thank you all

Elizabeth

elizabeth
who is your grandmother elsies child
we might find her on the census

You would need to get the Death Cert. for Elsie, to see further details (Address, Cause of Death, Informant) these details all help with research.

Chris :)


Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
Owen Elsie 40 Hull 9d 350


https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

(order Certs. from above £9.25 each)


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(above for searching of Births, Marriages, Deaths)


Edits (the Marriage above posted by safc above is available on Find My Past, from image, occupation of Charles was Fisherman, Residence at Time, 70, Division Road, for Elsie, 1, Division Road. His Father, William Owen, occ. Gilder and Decorator. Her Father, William Watkins (Deceased) occ. Labourer. Witnesses, Walter Lamb, Eliza Ann Huggins) (as some already on posting above)


1901 (Find My Past)
William Huggins Head Married Male 40 1861 Clothier Selby, Yorkshire, England
Eliza Ann Huggins Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Selby, Yorkshire, England
Charles Haigh Walker Adopted Son Single Male 16 1885 Apprentice To Pilot Hull, Yorkshire, England
Ellen Walker Adopted Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Hull, Yorkshire, England
Minnie Lynch Servant Single Female 16 1885 Housemaid Hull, Yorkshire, England
Street 1 Division Road
Parish Sculcoates
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (East Riding)
Municipal ward South Newington
Registration district Sculcoates
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 4478
Folio 108
Page 3


Marriages Jun 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
HUGGINS William Hunslet 9b 379
LAMB Eliza Ann Hunslet 9b 379

(perhaps relates to Walter Lamb, witness on Marriage)


Deaths Jun 1917 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------
Victory Eliza A 67 Hull 9d 362

(remarriage for her, on 1911 with Ellen Walker above, 30, Division Road)



Births Dec 1911 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Owen Charles W H B Watkins Grimsby 7a 1073

(did wonder about above?, seeing Charles (trawler fisherman) in Grimsby 1911)

?
1911 (Find My Past)
Harriett Gertrude Brmrose Head Widow Female Houseduties 34 1877 Martin Lincolnshire
Elsie Owing Visitor Married Female Houseduties 31 1880 Land Wales (Llandudno?)
Address 41 Freshney Street Grimsby Lincs
Parish Great Grimsby
County Lincolnshire
Census reference RG14 PN19956 RG78 PN1197A RD422 SD1 ED10 SN161
(says Married 13yrs, 2 children born, 1 livng, 1 died)

This looks like her sons death


CHARLES WILLIAM H B

Last nameOWEN

GenderMale

Birth day6

Birth month9

Birth year1911

Death quarter3

Death year1974

DistrictGRIMSBY

Volume7
Page0430
-----------------------------------------------------------

And this could be Elsie' husband. You can buy the record on the link provided. The cost is £3.45


Charles Owen

Birth year1875

Birth place as transcribed Hull

Birth place Hull

Birth county Yorkshire

Link to site
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8076499

Source
Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Index of First World War Mercantile Marine Medals and the British War Medal

Archive reference BT 351/1/107802

Record set British Merchant Navy, First World War Medal Cards 1914-1925

Category Military, armed forces & conflict

Subcategory
First World War
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The below can be found on the Common Wealth War Grave's site but the site is not working at the moment! Try later, it might give you NOK details


CHARLES OWEN

Service number 3902

Rank PRIVATE

Regiment Border Regiment

Battalion 5th Battalion.

Enlistment place HULL, YORKS

Death year 1916

Death day 26

Death month 7

Cause of death Killed in action

Death place France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes
FORMERLY 4407, E. YORKS REGT.

The above is NOT your Charles. Here's the details from the CWWG


Private Service No:4407Date of Death:27/07/1916 Age:18 Regiment/Service: Border Regiment 2nd/5th Bn. Grave Reference: II. G. 2.Cemetery:DRANOUTRE MILITARY CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Walter and Clara Owen, of 44, Manor Park, Lewisham, London

Looking at the nephew John Wilson on 1901, I suspect that this is a sister to Elsie's husband Charles ??

First name(s) Harriet
Last name Owen
Age 21
Birth year 1872
Marriage year 1893
Marriage date 04 Feb 1893
Marriage place Hull, St James
Residence 103 English St
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Owen
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Wilson
Spouse's age 37
Spouse's residence 103 English St
Spouse's father's first name(s) John William
Spouse's father's last name Wilson
County Yorkshire (East Riding)
Country England
Archive East Riding Archives & Local Studies Service
Archive reference PE 160/23
Page 19
Record set Yorkshire Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

William Owen was a Painter on this one.
Witnesses Edward Pritchett + Elizabeth Owen.


Dea x

Llandegley was in Kington RD.

Hi everyone
I was told this research could be addictive and yes I think it really is!

As a newbie I'm a bit lost. Can anyone tell me if there's anyway of confirming whether the Elsie Owen who died in Myton Hull in 1913 is my relative before buying the death cert? The age of this Elsie is 40 and my relative may have been approx 37. Certainly this is the only record of an Elsie Owen in the correct area at that time.

I also can't find my Elsie on the 1911 census .

By 1911 she had my grandmother who was Mary Elizabeth Owen born 1907. Her next child David Owen born 1913 was taken for adoption soon after birth when Elsie dropped dead in front of Mary age 6 or 7.

My grand mother Mary remembers people coming to her house and taking the baby David who was never seen again. Mary went into an orphanage in Hull for approx 1 year before being taken in by an older lady. Mary would never talk about her memories of her mum brother or time in the orphanage. I don't know what happened to her dad Charles although he may be listed on the 1911 Census as lodging in Grimsby. He was a fisherman but where's Elsie and Mary Owen in 1911

My puzzle and I'd love some help with it.

I've ordered the marriage cert for Charles and Elsie Owen from 31/12/1899. Will that help I wonder?

Have a great day :-)

Elizabeth- the image of their marriage certificate is on Find My Past. Safc posted the details above.

Before ordering any marriage certificates it's always worth asking if they are on Ancestry or FMP first.

I suspect the 1911 above (Elsie Owing) could be your Elsie. She was married and was recorded as having one living child. Perhaps your grandmother was with relatives?

Do you have Mary Elizabeth's birth certificate? What was the address?

Do you have David's birth certificate? What area was he born?

As David was born in 1911, the address on his birth cert might help to find Elsie on the 1911 census.

Wondered if these were for Charles- looking at the distorted image you can just about make out Grimsby 1908 and his father was William and Mother M?.

UK, Royal Naval Reserve Service Records Index, 1860-1955

Name: Charles Owen
Birth Date: 27 Jul 1875
Birth Place: Hull, Yorkshire
Date: 1908-1955
Service number: DE 86

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8530545#imageViewerLink
-------------------------------

UK, Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen, 1914-1925
Name: Charles Owen
Birth Date: 1875
Birth Place: Hull
Year Issued: 1914-1925

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8076499#imageViewerLink
---------------------------------------

Possible baptism:

Name: Charles Owen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 15 Aug 1875
Baptism Place: Groves and Holborne St., Hull, York, England
Father: William Owen
Mother: Maria Owen
FHL Film Number: 1895002

Oh!!

Hull Daily Mail - Thursday 29 November 1900

I, CHARLES OWEN of 4 Kate's Terrace, Rosamond Street, will NOT BE RESPONSIBLE for any DEBT or DEBTS contracted by my WIFE, ELSIE OWEN after this date.
Signed Charles Owen
Witness: Charles Cusa
November 29th 1900
--------------------------------------------

Are you sure Charles was the father of your Grandmother?

Oh my the plot thickens !
Charles is on my grandma Marys birth certificate . DOB 1 January 1907 28 Redhill Grimsby
David Owen the baby who was whisked away may have been born late 1906. We have no idea really. Mary said she was 6/7 when Elsie dropped dead in front of her whilst holding baby David. No idea of the facts except Mary went into an orphanage. I don't know why or where. Her dad Charles was a fisherman but in the 1911 census he was lodging in Grimsby. I can't find Elsie or Mary in 1911.

Can I view any birth marriage or death Certificates online or do I order copies? I'm j sure on this - thank you all for your help its so helpful