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So would I be right in thinking that Elizabeth maiden name : Williams
she then married Vaughan in 1876 in Ludford.

She was then widowed and married John Bowen who is Charles father?

I hope we are on the right track...

Yes Maddie, they are brothers- mother was Elizabeth Brookfield

WILLIAMS, THOMAS mmn: BROOKFIELD
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in ELLESMERE Volume 06A Page 657

WILLIAMS, CHARLES mmn: BROOKFIELD
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in ELLESMERE Volume 06A Page 709

so are thomas and charles brothers ???
Thomas
Last name Williams
Birth year 1860
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1860
Baptism day 22
Baptism month Apr
Place Hanmer
County Flintshire
Country Wales
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth

Charles
Last name Williams
Birth year 1873
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1873
Baptism day 24
Baptism month Jun
Place Hanmer
County Flintshire
Country Wales
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Record set Flintshire Baptisms

It is a bit confusing Austin, I'm a little lost :-S :-S

I was thinking that if Elizabeth Vaughan/Bowen who stated her father as Thomas Williams is correct then wouldn't Charles Bowen be nephew by marriage? Charles Williams is head of household, he is brother to Thomas who is Elizabeth's father so Charles is her uncle and Charles Bowen is her husband so could still be classed as Nephew?

Phew....

I wonder if that actually makes sense :-\

So this is what I was looking at....

Although I dont understand how Elizabeth had Charles when she was a Vaughan and he was named Bowen....not unless she knew she was going to marry Bowen so named charles under that surname and just didnt state a father???

Shropshire marriages Transcription

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First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Vaughan
Birth year 1859
Marriage year 1880
Marriage date 02 Aug 1880
Marriage place Ludford
Denomination Anglican
Residence Ludford
Age 21
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Williams
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Bowen
Spouse's residence Ludford
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Spouse's father's last name Bowen
County Shropshire

OK- so perhaps I do need to look at the Ludford marriage?

But if the Ludford marriage comes into it, then that 1911 census with Charles staying at his uncles, is incorrect.

I have to pop out, I'll try and check it out later.

This is the definite parish entry for Charles Bowen who married Bertha Smart in 1903 in Winterbourne, Gloucestershire.

No375 31st October 1903:
Charles Bowen 25 Bachelor Labourer Winterbourne John Bowen Labourer
Bertha Elizabeth Smart 23 Spinster - Winterbourne Albert Smart Miner
Solemnised between us Charles Bowen & Bertha Elizabeth Smart by ATS Goodrick, Rector
In the presence of us Thomas Harmer & Beatrice Maud Curtis after Banns

Thank you for putting info in order Austin and thank you for your input Maddie..

My next question is...

where does John Bowen come into this.

Charles states his father on his marriage entry as John Bowen?
I apologise if I am struggling to follow!

Griffiths is a total new name to my research too!

I'm not understanding the marriages that are being posted.

This looks to be the correct marriage:
First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name BOWEN
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1880
Spouse: Thomas Williams
District Ellesmere
County Shropshire
Country England

EDIT: A tree on ancestry has the date of marriage as 13th October 1880 - there's a note to say it's taken from marriage certificate.


Volume 6A Page 1353

James
Last name Vaughan
Birth year 1855
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 04 Mar 1876
Marriage place Ludford
Denomination Anglican
Residence Ludford
Age 21
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Vaughan
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Griffiths
Spouse's residence Ludford
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's father's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's father's last name William
County Shropshire
Register date range 1837-1900
Archive reference P175/A/3/4
Page 143


oh
both aged 21, both widowers
he is a labourer, shes a washerwomen
her father thomas williamsa labourer
witnesses thomas and harriett williams

I just want to put some of the info in order- it's getting a little confused.

Charles Birth (no maiden name on the GRO indicating illegitimate birth):
Births Sep 1879
Bowen Charles Ellesmere 6a 732

Charles Baptism:
First name(s) Charles
Last name Bowan
Birth year 1879
Baptism year 1879
Baptism day 21
Baptism month Sep
Place Hanmer
County Flintshire
Country Wales
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Abode:Willington
Record set Flintshire Baptisms

His Mum marries 1880:
First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name BOWEN
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1880
Spouse: Thomas Williams
District Ellesmere
County Shropshire
Country England
Volume 6A Page 1353

1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Queens Head, Threapwood, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
Thomas Williams Head Married Male 21 1860 General Laborer Willington, Flintshire, Wales
Elizabeth Williams Wife Married Female 23 1858 - Welshampton, Shropshire, England
Charles Williams Son Single Male 1 1880 - Willington, Flintshire, Wales
-------------------------------------------

1891:
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Tallarn Green, Willington, Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Thomas Williams Head Married Male 30 1861 Agricultural Laborer Flintshire, Wales
Elizabeth Williams Wife Married Female 31 1860 - Shropshire,
Charles Williams Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Lillie Williams Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Fanny Williams Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Blanche Williams Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Flintshire, Wales
--------------------------------

Birth of Blanche (Charles sister)- with mother's maiden name:

WILLIAMS, BLANCHE mmn: BOWEN
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in ELLESMERE Volume 06A Page 675
---------------------------------------------

In 1911 Charles is living with Thomas's brother, Charles.

this is marriage posted by alvigal

Last name Vaughan
Birth year 1859
Marriage year 1880
Marriage date 02 Aug 1880
Marriage place Ludford
Denomination Anglican
Residence Ludford
Age 21
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Williams
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Bowen
Spouse's residence Ludford
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Spouse's father's last name Bowen
County Shropshire

original image has them both as widowers, sher is a servant on a farm, father thomas william a labouer
he isa bourer and his father william is a labourer

Is this connected
Elizabeth Griffiths has (Williams ) in brackets daughter of Thomas Williams.
married James Vaughan son of William 4/3/1876 Ludford parish

Maryb

I'm going with the birth that RG found...

CHARLES
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1880
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District Ludlow
County Shropshire
Country England
Volume 6A
Page 588
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast


Okay this is where I am totally confused....

please can someone clarify whats been found....

So Charles Bowen was born to Lizzie Bowen? Illegitimate?
why was there no MMN stated?

But Lizzie married John Bowen?
they were both widows when they married one another?
Lizzie had previously married a Vaughan?


Did Lizzie marry John Bowen before Charles was born?
Why isnt a father's name stated?

Alviegal - how did you find out they were widows previous to their marriage to each other??

Thanks all for your help

Hi all

Back to it !!

RG & Alvie - Do you think the 1901 census that states Charles as born in Bucknell is the correct one?

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Harmer Head Married Male 61 1840 General Labourer Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Pamela Harmer Wife Married Female 58 1843 - Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Fanny Harmer Daughter Single Female 34 1867 - Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Thomas Harmer Son Single Male 21 1880 Stone Dresser Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Charles Bowen Boarder Single Male 23 1878 Black Smiths Striker Bucknell, Shropshire, England

I'm sticking with the 1911 of Charles living as Nephew with the Williams. Purely on the fact that it has been found his Mother - Lizzie's father is Williams
:-D

Thanks Alviegal ! I need fresh eyes too now!

Thanks Roots gatherer!

I will be coming back to this tomorrow to ty and piece it all together :-)

I wonder if this could be the Charles listed as nephew in 1911 but listed here in 1891 as Wiiliams? Just looking at the age gap between Charles and his younger sibling. Maybe clutching at straws though lol.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Tallarn Green, Willington, Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

Thomas Williams Head Married Male 30 1861 Agricultural Laborer Flintshire, Wales
Elizabeth Williams Wife Married Female 31 1860 - Shropshire, England
Charles Williams Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Lillie Williams Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Fanny Williams Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Flintshire, Wales
Blanche Williams Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Flintshire, Wales

It certainly is most confusing. I'm afraid i have to go now but will look in tomorrow hopefully when my head's a bit clearer. :-S :-S

Ahhh okay Rootsgatherer...

So does this all still tie in with what Alviegal is finding?

It seems to be all there?

So much info to take in !

Thank you so much for all your help,

I really appreciate your time


:-)

???


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Kempton (Village), Clunbury, Clun, Shropshire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Woodhouse Head - Male 44 1827 - Shropshire, England
Transcription
Harriet Woodhouse Wife - Female 31 1840 - Shropshire, England
Transcription
Lizzie Bowen Step-Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Shropshire, England
Transcription
Alice Woodhouse Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Shropshire, England