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Hi
I know that I'm being impatient & should wait for his birth certificate to arrive but I thought I'd be able to trace John Fretwell in a census but can't!!! Could anyone help please?

Details I have are - JOHN WILLIAM FRETWELL age 22 married Margaret Chesnut (I have her in all censuses ok) on 25th December 1897 in St Mark Victoria Docks Church, West Ham. John's father was CHARLES FRETWELL who was a Labourer.John was a Seaman.

I have now sent for the birth cert for JOHN WILLIAM FRETWELL, 2nd quarter 1876 in WEST HAM - until it arrives I'm not 100% certain it is correct.

However, I can't find either John William or Charles in any census at all which is strange - I know that in the later ones, John could be at sea but not when he was 5 in 1881 surely? Where is Charles in 1861 & 1871?

If anyone could have a quick look, I'd be really grateful otherwise I'll just have to be patient and wait for any additional info that the birth cert may have (hopefully, his mother's name).

Thank you, Sue

Can't see them on 1881 at present however there is this Charles a Labourer in the 1871 census that may be of use to you later:


Alice Fretwell abt 1869 I of Dogs, Middlesex, England Daughter West Ham Essex

Charles Fretwell abt 1846 Downham, Norfolk, England Head West Ham Essex

Eliza Fretwell abt 1847 Ely, Cambridgeshire, England Wife West Ham Essex

Henry Fretwell abt 1870 Poplar, Middlesex, England Son West Ham Essex

1881 England Census
about Charles Cook

Name: Charles Cook
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Downham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 35 Charlotte St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Laborer Pitch & Tar Wks
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 19b


Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Cook 12 born: London, Middlesex,
Charles Cook 36
Eliza Cook 33 born: Ely, Cambridgeshire,
George Cook 2 born: London, Middlesex,
Harry Cook 10 born: London, Middlesex,
Kate Cook 7 born: London, Middlesex,
William Cook 5 << your John William Fretwell??


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1715; Folio: 129; Page: 2; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341410.

This looks like the family debi found in 1881 - their names Cook though. All the birthplaces match the 1871 & 'William' could be your John William?

Charles Cook
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Downham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: 35 Charlotte St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Laborer Pitch & Tar Wks

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 19b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Cook 12
Charles Cook 36
Eliza Cook 33
George Cook 2
Harry Cook 10
Kate Cook 7
William Cook 5

snap debi!!

lol Angela what great detectives we are :))

Can't seem to find them in 1891 or 1901 at present... however there is a death for Charles Fretwell in 1902 in West Ham on the free bmd web site.

Is this Charles in 1861?

Name: Charles Fretwell
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: West Dereham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Downham Market and Wimbotsham
Ecclesiastical parish: Fincham
Town: Downham Market
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Downham
Sub-registration district: Downham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Fretwell 16
Eliza Fretwell 11
Henry Fretwell 42
Henry Fretwell 8
Martha Fretwell 6
Sarah Fretwell 41
Sarah Fretwell 6
William Fretwell 3

1891 England Census
about Eliza Cook

Name: Eliza Cook
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Ely
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Cook 44
Eliza Cook 41
Elizabeth Cook 10
George Cook 12
Henry Cook 21
Kate Cook 17
William Cook 15

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1316; Folio 129; Page 60; GSU roll: 6096426.

1891 - still calling themselves Cook!

Charles Cook
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Cambridgeshire, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Cook 44
Eliza Cook 41
Elizabeth Cook 10
George Cook 12
Henry Cook 21
Kate Cook 17
William Cook 15


I surprise myself sometimes, debi. :-))

I have a family in my tree who called themselves by a different surname in 1881/1891. I think it was because the husband was already married & they were trying to hide! The couple finally married when their oldest children were in their thirties & he was shown as a widower!

Angela

I know what your saying lol ....

Why did they revert to calling themselves COOK???


Here they are in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Charles Cook

Name: Charles Cook
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Downham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
:


Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Canning Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 23

Household schedule number: 219
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Cook 60
Eliza Cook 60

Thank you so much for your help - I popped out to make a cup of tea & came back to all of these replies, how fantastic you are!!

I'm gonna drink my cuppa and have a quiet read of what you've found & come back to you in 10 minutes!!

Thanks again, Sue

Your welcome

I do hope when you know for certain from the BC your able to fathom out if the above family are Fretwell's why they were recorded as Cook on the census details...... do let us know if & when you find out pls?

Much happiness
Debi

Oooooh, I hope its nothing sinister!!! Lol

Its quite intriguing isn't it? Obviously something happened between 1871 & 1881 for them to change their name. I am going to look up the birth's of Kate, William & George to find out if i) William is my John William and ii) if they were registered as Fretwell.

I'm amazed at how you managed to find them as Cook when we only knew them as Fretwell - well done, I'm so impressed!!

I'll let you know if I trace those births in a bit & when the birth cert arrives, of course I'll let you know the details - shame we have to wait for these things!!

Sue

Just one more thing that I've thought of (and I hope I'm not pushing it!!) - by 1901 census John William Fretwell was married to Margaret. He may well have been at sea but where was Margaret? Was she Margaret Cook? They'd been married over 3 years and so could well have had a child by then? Would you mind a quick peek at 1901 for Margaret for me?

Thank you, Sue

I've found birth of
Kate Fretwell, 1874 Poplar
George Fretwell, 1879 West Ham
but no William Fretwell - so hopefully this is my John William, 1876 West Ham.

I have also found marriage of Charles Fretwell 1867 in Poplar

Fingers crossed that when I receive John William's birth certificate it will show his mother as Eliza!!

I looked Margaret up on 1891 census and if it's the correct one she was born in Scotland. Wondering if this could be them on 1901 census, mistranscribed?

Name: William Tretwell
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Canning Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 356
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Tretwell 25
William Tretwell 25
William Tretwell 1

Maisy I'd say it's a pretty good guess that it is.... well done :))

Susan I can't wait now till your BC comes... lol... it's like christmas. I'm sure it's not too sinister , perhaps Charles was illagitamate & hence the confusion of surnames mothers maybe fathers??

Much happiness
Debi

I've just got back from shopping & thought I'd have a look to see the progress. Well done all!

Just a tip Susan on how I found them, I suspect Debi did it in a similar way. Using the info Debi had found in 1871, I searched for a Charles (no surname), born 1846 Downham Norfolk, with a wife called Eliza, living in West Ham Essex. I then cross-referenced the other family members & reached the conclusion it was the same family.

Hope this helps.

Angela

Hi again

Maisy - you're great, thank you. Thats them!! I forgot to say that Margaret was born in Scotland, sorry.

Debi - GRO are posting cert on 9th November as soon as I receive it, I'll let you know & thanks for all of your help

Angela - what you did sounds so straight forward but do you use Ancestry? I'm registered with TheGenealogist which doesn't give me the options that you used - maybe I should change when my membership runs out? I've spent ages this afternoon using the info that you people have kindly given me and eventaully found the Fretwells on TheGenealogist transcribed as Tretwell is 1861 & Perchwell in 1871!!!

Sue