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I'm looking for birth record and parents of my gg grandmother Alicia Hughes (c1851-1885) born Denbigh, Wales. I have only been able to track her in the 1871 census and after her marriage (1877) to her death in 1885. Can you find her in 1861 census and her birth record. Her father was William Hughes (builder) but who was her mother? Did she have siblings?

Details from marriage certificate
1877 Marriage solemnised at the Register Office in the District of Chorlton in the County of Lancaster
No: 145
When married: 27 November 1877
Name and surname (of groom): Thomas Allott
Age: 32
Condition: Bachelor
Rank of Profession Iron turner
Residence at time of marriage: 5 Wellington St, Openshaw
Father's name and surname: Joseph Allott (deceased)
Rank or profession of father: Maltster ?
Name and surname (of bride): Alicia Hughes
Age: 25
Condition: Spinster
Rank or profession: -
Residence at time of marriage: 5 Wellington St, Openshaw
Father's name and surname: William Hughes
Rank or profession of father: Builder
Married in the Register Office by Certificate before me.
This marriage was Solemnised between us, Thomas Allott, Alicia Hughes in the presence of us, x the mark of Samuel Pugh, x the mark of Benjamin Swarfield.
Joseph O'Gorman, Registrar
W. -. Engill, Supnt Regr

1871 census - Alicia Hughes is a 19 yo servant of the Jewsbury family at Gore Street Priory Lodge, Chorlton On Medlock, Manchester, Lancashire.
JEWSBURY, Frances E Head M 51 1820 Lancashire
JEWSBURY, Emily Wife F 41 1830 Worcestershire
JEWSBURY, Stanley V* Son M 17 1854 Lancashire
JEWSBURY, Louisa M Daughter F 15 1856 Lancashire
DOWNS, Emma Servant F 33 1838 Northumberland
JONES, Marguaret Servant F 25 1846 Anglesey
HUGHES, Alicia Servant F 19 1852 Denbighshire
Piece: 3994
Folio: 45
Page: 21
Registration District: Chorlton
Civil Parish: Chorlton on Medlock
Municipal Borough: Manchester
Address: Gore Street Priory Lodge, Chorlton On Medlock, Manchester
County: Lancashire

????????????

Name: Alice Hughes
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: Eglwysfach, Caernarvonshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Llanrwst
Sub-District: Llanrwst
Parish: Pennant
County: Denbighshire
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Hughes Self M 60 Capdonreg, Caernarvonshire
Eliza Hughes Wife F 61 Penmachno, Caernarvonshire
John Hughes Son M 22 Bettwsycoed, Caernarvonshire
Alice Hughes Daughter F 20 Eglwysfach, Caernarvonshire

Name: Alice Hughes
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1852
Registration District: St. Asaph
County: Denbighshire
Event Place: St. Asaph, Denbighshire, Wales
Volume: 11B
Page: 325
Line Number: 33

Hi

Could she have been born 'Alice'

There were no penalties for not registering a birth at the that time, she may not have been registered at all

There are a few births registered for a 'female' Hughes but I guess that's not much help!

Are you sure about the witness 'Benjamin Swarfield', I can't see a man with this name?

Off topic, but in reply to Gins re Benjamin Swarfield:

As Thomas Allott's father was a maltster, I wonder if this could be Benjamin, who seems to have moved around the country:


1871 England Census about Benjm H Swaffield
Name: Benjm H Swaffield
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: ??, Birchington
Civil Parish: St Modwen
Ecclesiastical parish: St Modwen
Town: Barton upon Trent
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton upon Trent
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 103
Piece: 2903
Folio: 110
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles F Graham 33
Emma J Graham 26
Charles H W Q Graham 5
Evelyn G Graham 2
Frederic D Graham 1
Benjm H Swaffield 17 - apprentice to wine and spirit merchant.
Annie Saunders 18
Clara Preston 10



1881 England Census about Benjn. H. Swaffield
Name: Benjn. H. Swaffield
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Mallay Os, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Crossgate
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 13 Mowbray St
Occupation: Commercial Traveller Spirit Trade <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Durham
Sub-registration district: St Oswald
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4954
Folio: 44
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Rhoda Clark 43
Thomas Ed. Swaffield 33
Benjn. H. Swaffield 27

I agree that it is quite likely that she is recorded as Alice Hughes rather than Alicia Hughes in 1861 census and birth record. I suspect that the only way I can confirm that it's the same one is if I can connect her to a father called William Hughes. Baptisms in Denbighshire may be my best bet.
Alicia in New Zealand

Maybe a possibility for Alicia's parents???


1871 England Census about William Hughes
Name: William Hughes
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Hughes
Gender: Male
Where born: Denbighshire, Wales <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Horwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Horwich
County/Island: Lancashire <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Country: England
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Horwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 73
Piece: 3927
Folio: 27
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hughes 39 - stonemason <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jane Hughes 40
William Hughes 16
George Hughes 6
Martha J Hughes 2

Can't see them in 1861. Son William was born Denbighshire, and son George was born Bootle, so they must have moved from Wales to Lancashire 1861 - 71.
Horwich is about 5 miles from Chorlton.

You sure she married?????


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Alice Hughes
Name: Alice Hughes
Birth Date: abt 1851
Date of Registration: Sep 1917
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Llanrwst**********
Inferred County: Denbighshire********
Volume: 11b
Page: 359

Just to point out that Father William on the 1871 that Ann posted.......is a Farmer of 37 Acres.

No Alicia/Alice


1861 England Census
about Jane Hughes Name:Jane Hughes
Age:30
Estimated birth year:1831
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:William Hughes
Gender:Female
Where born: Onell, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish:Holy Trinity
Town:Birkenhead
County/Island:Cheshire
Country:England

Household Members:

William Hughes 26 Wales....(Stone Mason)
Jane Hughes 30
John Conway 23 (Lodger)
Robert Davies 25 (Lodger)
William Hughes 6 Wales

1861 England Census


Name:William Hughes

Age:31

Estimated birth year:1830

Relation:
Head

Spouse's Name:
Jane Hughes

Gender:Male

Where born:Denbigh, Denbighshire, Wales

Civil Parish:Liverpool

Ecclesiastical parish:St Peter

Town:Liverpool

County/Island:Lancashire


Registration district:
Liverpool
Sub-registration district:
St George
ED, institution, or vessel:
4
Household schedule number:
158

Piece:2671

Folio:108

Page Number:29

Household Members:


Name

Age

William Hughes 31 <<Hotel waiter
Jane Hughes 33
William Hughes 5 <<Liverpool

William Alcock 36

I have no idea if I am barking up the wrong tree here.......because I am rubbish with Wales districts........

Here goes....

?????????


Marriages Dec 1851 (>99%)
HUGHES William Carnarvon 27 555
JONES Jane Carnarvon 27 555

Could this be Alicia mistranscribed......

??


1861 Wales Census
about Elisa Hughes Name:Elisa Hughes
Age:9
Estimated birth year:abt 1852
Relation:Granddaughter
Gender:Female Where born:
Morfa Borth, Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township:Cyfoeth y Brenin
County/Island:Cardiganshire
Country:Wales

Registration district:Aberystwyth
Sub-registration district:Geneurglynn

Household Members:

Elizabeth Jones 60
Elizabeth Jones 25
Elisa Hughes 9



1851 Wales Census
about Elizabeth Jones Name:Elizabeth Jones
Age:19 Estimated birth year:abt 1832
Relation:Daughter
Mother's name:Elizabeth Jones
Gender:Female
Where born:Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township:Llanbadarn Fawr


Household Members:

Elizabeth Jones 44
Elizabeth Jones 19
Margaret Jones 17
Jane Jones 14

Hmmm, Jane was born 1837 Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales


Feel free to call me a Nincompoop!

At least I tried. :-D

Wearing my numpty hat (thought I'd join Prickles):

The 1861/1871 for William and Jane Hughes (as per AGran and Prickles) is? this marriage:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Jane Rotherham
Name: Jane Rotherham
Registration Year: 1853
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Conway
Inferred County: Caernarvonshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 929
Records on Page:
Name
William Hughes
Jane Rotherham
...........
Fairly certain on that because daughter Martha Jane seems to be on LancsFreeBMD:

HUGHES Martha J ROTHERAM 1868 Horwich Bolton Lancashire HOR/10/231

..........

Just wondering if Jane had a daughter before marriage.

And I'll go stand in the nincompoop corner.

Maureen
:-S ;-)

:-D :-D :-D

I think we do need to assume Alicia/Alice Hughes was born either in Denbigh or Denbighshire otherwise the number of options is just too huge.

I like ArgyllGran's suggestion of William Hughes (stone mason - close enough to builder) and possibly Jane Hughes. This William would have sired Alicia when he was about 20-21 if he is indeed the father. I wonder what age he married Jane (assuming he did). Perhaps Alicia was brought up by someone else (a relative?) if he and the mother were not in a position at that age to provide for children. Also the ten year gap in his children, might indicate a first wife who died, and a remarriage with more children.

Alicia (named after this gg grandmother)

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census



Household Information

Street WELLINGTON STREET
Parish OPENSHAW
Town
City
County Lancashire
Country ENGLAND
Registration District CHORLTON
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name THOMAS
Last Name ALLOTT
Birth Year 1845
Age 36
Birth Place
Birth Town LINCOLN
Birth County LINCOLNSHIRE
Relationship To Head of Household HEAD
Gender Male
Occupation IRON TURNER
Condition MARRIED
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 34
Page 18
Piece Number 3909

Person 2

First Name ALIDIA
Last Name ALLOTT
Birth Year 1852
Age 29
Birth Place WALES
Birth Town
Birth County DENBIGHSHIRE
Relationship To Head of Household WIFE
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition MARRIED
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 34
Page 18
Piece Number 3909

Person 3

First Name BESSIE
Last Name ALLOTT
Birth Year 1879
Age 2
Birth Place
Birth Town OPENSHAW
Birth County LANCASHIRE
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 35
Page 19
Piece Number 3909

Gins Report Edit Delete 3 Aug 2014 02:44

A correction was made to the 1881 census at Ancestry


Alicia Allott rather than Alidia Allott
Correction due to an error in transcription.

Submitted by rodneycorner on 04/08/2010



Have you got in touch with the person who made this correction or is it 'your' correction?

Yes that's my gg-grandparents and Bessie (properly Catherine Elizabeth) is my g-grandmother in the 1881 census. I haven't been in touch with RodneyCorner. Later Alicia has another daughter called Mary Maud known as Maud. Alicia dies in 1885, and (Septimus) Thomas Allott dies in 1886, and in 1891 census the daughters are living with their uncle and aunt, Charles S (civil engineer) and Mary J Allott and their 4 sons. This 'adoption' appears to have given the 2 girls a good start in life.

I think this birth registration looks like a good possibility for Alicia Hughes born in Denbigh around 1851. But I have to pay for the certificate to find out if the father is called William!

Birth ELISHA HUGHES
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec 1851
Registration District: St. Asaph, County: Denbighshire
Volume XXVII, Page 214

Alicia Warren

Almost a year later I finally find the money to order the birth certificate for Elisha HUGHES
(Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec 1851, Registration District: St. Asaph, County: Denbighshire, Volume XXVII, Page 214)

and I think it might be the right one.
Here's what it says:

Column 243
Where and when born: December Eighth 1851 at Plough Yard, Denbigh
Name: Elisha
Sex: Girl
Name and surname of father: William Hughes
Name, surname and maiden surname of mother: Jemima Hughes formerly Vaughan
Occupation of father: Joiner
Signature, description and residence of informant: X the mark of Jemima Hughes Mother Plough Yard Denbigh.
When registered: Thirty first December 1851
Signature of registrar: P M Roberts Registrar

This fits all known information about her birth, with the exception of the spelling of Alicia phonetically as Elisha, and the occupation of her father being Joiner not Builder.

We can see that her mother couldn't sign her name so she is hardly likely to quibble with the registrar about the spelling of Alicia.

What about the father's occupation. Are joiner and builder similar enough?

Regards, Alicia