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OK birth certificate arrived today.

Daniel James Lawrence Mead born 30 January 1912 no father named. Mother Rhoda Mary Mead. So doesn't throw any more light on things other than to confirm what you all thought; that he was a son of a daughter of Mary :-)

Nice one Chris!

Jude

1914 Newport Street Directory

Dumfries Place
7, Mead, Jas, haulier

http://www.newportpast.com/records/directories/johns1914/search.php?road=Dumfries%20Place

(above from google)

Chris :)

hey, JoonieCloonie was correct :-D

about all of it!


that was a satisfying day out indeed

did you want to put the info about P here, since she is likely living? or oops, I guess she is one of the ones you mentioned as deceased unfortunately.

Dea I am now a veritable expert on electoral rolls ha! Bet thing was finding ME on ER in 1976 :-)

So pleased you got it sorted Jude.

Dea Xxx

Well I had a very successful and satisfying day today :-) Firstly I walked to the library 1.5 miles ;-) And afterwards via ASDA to home another 2.3 miles!!!! And then I probably walked another mile back and forth to the shelves in the library lol :-)


I knew that my husband's great grandparents lived at 80 Hewertson Road in 1911 and then at some point moved to 7 Dumfries Place Newport. So I started in 1918 and followed them through.....

7 Dumfries Place was home to them for nearly 50 years. During that time there were up to seven people eligible to vote living there.

Daniel James Lawrence seems to have morphed into James Daniel Lawrence and I find him first in 1933 living with his mother and grandparents as James Junior. And in 1946 he is there with his mother and grandmother and wife Grace. In between he is with John James, his uncle (and my husband's grandfather) and wife Winifred in 1935 with Grace at Bolt Street Newport (not far from Dumfries Place)

During the years there are comings and goings and Stanley A and William join Mary.

Stanley and William are the twin sons from John James' first marriage (another thread).

And when Mary dies in 1963 I find the informant P. Williams listed as Phyllis A. in Delius Close Newport.

So it seems Patchem was probably correct, Daniel James Lawrence/James Daniel Lawrence Mead lived with his mother and grandparents and it is possible he looked on his grandparents as his parents (and therefore Phyllis was the informant and declared her status as granddaughter).

The most comforting thing is that, far from being the dysfunctional family I thought they might be, they appear to have been a very close family. I am guessing that when John James' first wife, Esther, died in 1925, leaving him with three boys under the age of six, that they were living with James and Mary Mead, their grandparents. Whether they ever lived with John after that, I know not. But they kept in touch with their grandparents.

On the way from the library to ASDA, I passed Dumfries place. It is the tiniest 2-up-2-down I have ever seen!!!!!!

The twist in the tail, which brings in a third thread .......Winifred Florence May Ellis, adopted daughter of Martha Stoddart, my husband's grandmother....at their marriage in September 1930 she had stated her address as 76 George Street Newport. On the electoral rolls she is Winifred Sergent. In 1911, when I find her aged 8 listed as adopted daughter, two other members of the household are named Sergeant. One is Hilda Marjorie, listed as niece, and officially the daughter of Martha Stoddart's sister Harriet who would have been 57 when Hilda was born. Can of worms or what?

:-0

Oh and to tie in all the threads...

Daniel J L Mead son of Mead/Mead - waiting for the certificate but he appears to have flipped his first two names. Had assumed J was James...then seeing the mess that is the GRO index L is Lawrence - so Daniel Jemas Lawrence Mead/James Daniel Lawrence Mead.

He married Grace Beatrice Harlin.

They had four daughters all deceased

Informant was Phyllis Audrey

Ah yes Joonie got it... so guessing that Daniel J L is Daniel James Lawrence ....I might just have to invest in the birth certificate for him....and P.A. ....guess it is easy to put grand-daughter when it would really be great grand daughter spookie that the other marriage on that entry concerns a Christopher R Hunt - that's my husband's brother's name (though he wasn't thought of in 1934 as his mum was 1 and his dad about a month old lol!!!!!!)

Jude

Rhoda's son, but brought up as Mary and James's son?

He married in 1934 in Newport and they had 4 children, including the P Mead.

Added:
Sorry, posting at same time but internet up-and-down.

Same conclusion as JoonieCloonie

that's the one I'm talking about, 1938 and 1960

I told you about the parents' marriage ... omit the 'g' at the end of the mother's name :-)

and the way it would work is if James/Daniel 1912 was a child of a daughter of Mary

Joonie :-) So yes they're both me effectively.....

OK well mindful that these people are probably still living.....

There appears to be only one candidate for P.Williams as a Mead and that is a marriage in 1960 and a corresponding birth in 1938. I can't find a marriage that fits Mead with the MMN for this birth...and therefore can't get back to one of Mary's children for P to be a grand daughter.

From my last sortie to the library Rhoda Mary was living with her parents until at least 1930..well my mind is made up - Friday to be booked off for another delve into the electoral rolls!

oops, the other one is you ... you don't show up in your own searches :-)

Joonie "both" people? One is my husband...but I only get one match

Will have a play and then get back to all other questions/suggestions :-)

Jude

James D Mead Q1 1912 in Wandsworth ... seems to be the only similar birth

no wait, I have him

Births Mar 1912
MEAD Daniel J L (omitting other details, see at FreeBMD)

could possibly be Rhoda's son I suppose, making P a great-granddaughter ...

do you know both people who have Rhoda in their trees here?

Jude - would there be any electoral rolls at the local library to look up P Williams of 19 Delius Close? - You may be able to see who else was living there to give you something to follow and it may also give her full first name?

Just a thought........

Dea x

James Daniel L Mead died 1992 Newport, and birth date given there as January, 1912.

Any birth under Lawrence or Mead?

Joonie...she did have a son John James who on several census' was shown as James Jr. However I know all about him as he was my husband's grandfather. He married twice but none of the eight children he had was a girl with the first initial P. I will have a play tonight and then maybe it's off to the library on Friday!

As far as I am aware Mary was only married the once.

Jude

there is a Ms Mead + Mr Williams marriage in Newport not long before Mary's death

there is a birth in Newport to match the Ms Mead

however there are no other births with the same parents' surnames, and no marriage that I can find (mother could have been previously married)

no, yes there is, the mother/bride's surname is just spelled without the final 'g' on all other records

however then the groom is recorded under two different surnames ... !

which all doesn't work unless your Mary had a son James which it seems she didn't ...

oddly coincidental though

Yes Patchem I Edited to this effect.......another visit to the library when I get a chance!

P Williams can be a married daughter of one of Mary's sons, surely?

Investigate the ER at the library.