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I have found this record on Family Search

Name: Kilchiner Lilley

Birth: 16 Dec 1787

Northamptonshire, England

I am unable to find a death record or any other details.

Thanks

what else do you know about her? did she marry?

???????????

Name: Lilian Louisa Kitchener
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1886
Registration District: Peterborough
County: Northamptonshire
Event Place: Peterborough, Northamptonshire, England
Volume: 3B
Page: 175
Line Number: 366

Her father is called Joseph 1751-1811

Kilchiner is the child's first name (or perhaps a mistranscription of a first name) - we don't know if this is a boy or a girl - at least not from the record from someone's tree on FS:

Kilchiner Lilley
International Genealogical Index (IGI)
birth: 16 December 1787 Broughton, Northampton, England
father: Joseph Lilley mother: Mary

There seem to be heaps of trees on Ancestry that say Kilchiner Lilley was born 16th Dec 1787 at Broughton Northants, to Joseph Lilley and his wife Mary nee Buchanan, but none of them seem to bother to provide a source to substantiate this.

Expect most of them have blithely copied from someone else's tree without checking for themselves... :-(

Not finding a record even for her baptism at the moment. Had wondered if Kilchiner were a particularly mangled transcription of Katherine, but not having any luck with that name either.

EDIT: Looks like ArgyllGran had better luck than me with the baptism. Trouble with IGI submissions is it's hard to tell how reliable, or not, they are...

How did you work back to this person?

You must have a reason for looking for the info

what is your own connection to the person, Mark?

there is no such record on familysearch

perhaps it was in the old IGI as a submitted record and you are quoting what someone else said and have not found that record yourself, or if you did it was quite some time ago?


... all of the 'Kilchener's showing at familysearch are undoubtedly mistranscribed 'Kitchener's, e.g. Robert KiTchener Cleveland born 1900 (per the GRO)

There is no marriage of a Joseph Lilley to a Mary Buchanan in Northamptonshire parish marriage records.

I do not have the parish baptism records.

The only Joseph Lilley marriage pre 1787 is
Martha Agar 1762 Warmington

there is no marriage among grooms or brides with surname Lilley or variant where the first name resembles Kilchener at all


the surname Kitchen/Kitchener/Kitchener does appear in parish marriages
but no Joseph

there are Kitchen/Kitchener brides but their given names are Amy, Elizabeth, Jane, Mary

there is one Buchanan marriage in Northants, Elizabeth to William Pell 1805


of course these people could have come from elsewhere

personally, I would ask the tree owners who give this info what their source is ... which for all but one of them will be other tree owners ...

The "record" I posted above is on the FS website, but from the Genealogies tab, not Records .
Even there, it doesn't come up if you enter Kilchiner as a search term.

You have to search just for surname Lilley , born Northamptonshire 1787.

ah, that's what I figured ... I've wondered whether the submitted IGI records all show up in trees there or have just been lost, because some of them were genuinely accurate

... huh, it still won't produce it for me, but it's a temperamental thing

no wait, yes there it is, gotcha

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M38N-GJV

batch number: 7906532 (submitted)
IGI batch type code: 2
IGI sheet number: 72
IGI serial number: 00190

it claims 'parish printout' as source and shows her as female ... it that's true, it's a ridiculous mistranscription, but we need somebody with the Northants baptisms CD


so maybe Mark just ran across it and is asking on spec ... maybe we will never know ... but wouldn't it have been nice to have an actual reference and the details to start with, like you found ArgyllGran and I've expanded on ... and not just a vague query with no source like we got ... Mark being quite an old hand at this after all


searching genealogies for Lilley births in Broughton Northamptonshire 1770 to 1805 with parents Joseph and Lilley produces 13 results ... some duplicates ... one of the records for Martha Lilley 1771 specifies mother Mary Buchanan

so 'Kilchiner' is very possible a real person, just not likely with that name

how about this marriage, from ancestry ....... not to a Mary however :-)



England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: Joseph Lilley
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 10 Aug 1782
Marriage Place: London, Or Northampton St Sepulchre, Northampton, England
Spouse: Hannah Mclaughlin
FHL Film Number: 375005

There are in fact 76 Public Family Trees and 12 Private Trees that have Kilchiner Lilley in them ........................ all of them either unsourced or a handful with 1 source





about as reliable as familysearch trees methinks!!

Sylvia - I have run into that bizarre batch of records from

'London, Or Northampton St Sepulchre, Northampton, England'

before.


They are in fact all London: St Sepulchre's, Holborn. What weirdness in the LDS process produced that, we don't know.

The FS batch is M00061-7. If you use that as the search term at FS with nothing else, there are nearly 12 thousand records, all of which say either

St. Sepulchre, London, England (majority)
or
London, Or Northampton St Sepulchre, Northampton, England

none of them are Northants marriages.


in the case of this thread I checked the Northants marriages CD and that marriage isn't there, and in another case I know of someone had seen the actual parish record in London so it wasn't in Northants

So file that arcane bit of strangeness away in case it happens again ... it's been some time since I checked that out at FS but it stuck in my head so now it can stick in yours ! :-)

someday our heads will get full ...

http://www.curiousfox.com/vill100/Northamptonshire16313_1.html

am looking for any info re Joseph Lilley b 10.04.1751 Broughton, Northampton died 01.10.1811. He married Mary Buchanan who died 18.07.1804. Joseph's parents were Samuel and Ann/Anne ?


http://www.curiousfox.com/vill100/Northamptonshire70069_1.html

looking for any info re Lilley's from Northamptonshire. Samuel Lilley and Ann ? - 3 children, Joseph b 10.04.1751 married Mary Buchanan, Mary b 29.03.1753 and Elizabeth b 27.12.1756 all born in Broughton. Joseph and Mary had 6 children - John, Martha, Samuel, Martha, Joseph and Nathaniel b 1781 who married Eunice Cheater b 1783 Barton.


http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/e/r/Bev-Berry/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0346.html

Mary Buchanan was born in Lancashire, and died 18 Jul 1804. She married Joseph Lilley, son of Samuel Lilley and Ann.

(above from google search, no advance with Marriage!)

Chris :)

if the marriage is true, and Mary Buchanan was from Lancashire, they may have married in her home parish before settling in Northants

this is the link where the baptisms mentioned in the curiousfox message above and to which I referred earlier can be seen

http://tinyurl.com/kgb4l2s

same as in the Curiousfox message + 'Kilchener'

it is certainly a long span ... from John in 1770 to the last Martha (of 3) in 1800 ... the outside we might expect if Mary was born in 1753


wouldn't it be nice if Mark came back and talked to the nice people trying to help him and told us what he actually knows and what his interst in 'Kilchener' is and what he would like to find out?

Joonie .....................


thanks for that information on

St. Sepulchre, London, England (majority)
or
London, Or Northampton St Sepulchre, Northampton, England

none of them are Northants marriages.



Problem is ...........

.......... my head is already full of useless information, so I may well forget, and you might to remind me again :-)

Burial
County Northamptonshire
Place Broughton
Church Saint Andrews
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 24 Dec 1830
Forename Joseph
Surname LILLEY
Age 90
Abode Broughton Northamptonshire

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(from above free to use link)


01 January 1831 - Northampton Mercury - Northampton, Northamptonshire

Death
On Wednesday the 22d ult. at Broughton, near Kettering, Mr. Joseph Lilley, in the 91st year his age. The deceased retained his faculties till within few days of his death. His wife, to whom he had been married 63 years, still survives him, and is in her 87th year.

(possibly below)

Burial
County Northamptonshire
Place Broughton
Church Saint Andrews
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 24 Jun 1831
Forename Mary
Surname LILLEY
Age 86y
Abode Broughton Northamptonshire

Chris :)

(in case above relate anywhere!)

that death would make her born about 1744/45

a little early for an 1800 child ... but the last child in the batch before that one (who was possibly a child of son Joseph 1779) was 1788 which is not unreasonable

if that Joseph born c1740 died 1830 is the same Joseph ... I wonder whether the marriage I found wasn't a first marriage:

The only Joseph Lilley marriage pre 1787 is
Martha Agar 1762 Warmington

there is a baptism of an Ann to a Joseph and Mary couple in Warmington in 1813 in Warmington


in 1841 the son (my surmise) Joseph Lilley is in Stanion, transcribed by Ancestry as Lahey, with younger wife Ann, with (my surmise) married daughter Martha Hector (transcribed by Ancestry as Hictar)

in 1851 he is in Stanion, having lost 10 years off his age, and shows as born in Broughton, living with daughter Ann 30 who was baptised in Warmington in 1813
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJFD-7T5
although recorded in 1851 as born in Stanion c1821 (perhaps a later Ann)


so it looks like the Broughton family is not fictitious, and that is one of the children at least, Joseph baptised 1779 in Broughton


and for all we know, Mark knows all about the rest of these Lilleys, and has just chosen not to bother telling us anything

why does Mark not return to his thread??????????????????


I would like to know how he got back to Kilchener Lilley


I would also like to know the relationship between him and Kilchener Lilley, and the Lilley family

Northamptonshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) JOSEPH
Last name LILLIE
Marriage year 1769
Marriage day 19
Marriage month Oct
Marriage place LODDINGTON
Parish Cransley
Spouse's first name(s) MARY
Spouse's last name THARPE
Spouse's parish Loddington
Event Type Marriage
By Banns or licence Banns

(above the Joseph, Death 1830 perhaps)

Chris :)

(if the Mark poster I am thinking of, he usually has limited time here, normally saying he is 'in a library, and his time his up')...