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Gosh, so much more information to look into! Thank you again very much everyone for your invaluable help. I will have more time this coming weekend to look into everything so I will follow your advice and guidance then. Thank you! x

I did see the 1911 Census for Phillip George Dowling as a patient, but stupidly forgot to go back to it after checking the other entry of him at home with his wife.


I think he has been entered as being in 2 places :-)

Not that unusual!!


the ancestry version..............


1911 Census

Name: Philip George Dowling
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Patient (Institutional)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Engine Driver
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration District Number: 384
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 44-57
Piece: 18147


from image

he seems to be in the Birmingham and Midland Eye Hospital, Church Street, Birmingham

1911 (Find My Past)
First name(s) Philip George
Last name Dowling
Relationship to household head Patient
Marital condition Married
Gender Male
Age 48
Birth year 1863
Birth place Warwickshire Birmingham
Occupation Engine Driver
Address Church Street Birmingham
Census reference RG14 PN 18147 RD384 SD4 ED44 SN9999

Chris :)


(the Grace you mention below?)


Deaths Mar 1902 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Dowling Grace Hilda 4 Aston 6d 203


Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Dowling Grace Hilda Aston 6d 352


(relating?)

Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dowling George H Lovsey Birmingham 6d 451
Lovsey Ellen E Dowling Birmingham 6d 451


01 August 1914 - Birmingham Daily Mail - Birmingham, West Midlands

Marriage
Dowling - Lovsey. On the 31st, by the Rev. R.A. Ellis, of Bishop Ryder's Church, George Harold Dowling, son of Philip George Dowling, of Nechells, to Ellen Elizabeth Lovsey, daughter of William Edward Lovsey and Ellen Lovsey, 230 Aston Rd.


Births Sep 1888 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
DOWLING George Harold Aston 6d 313



edits (below is Surgeon, Eye Hospital, going back to image 6)

1911 (Ancestry)
Name: Joseph Xavier Robert
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Resident Surgical Officer (Institutional)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Chatham, Canada
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: House Surgeon
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration District Number: 384
Sub-registration district: St Martin


Medical Register 1913 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Joseph Xavier
Last name Robert
Year 1913
Record set Medical Register 1913
Category Education & work
(Address, Birmingham and Midland Eye Hospital)

(wondering about below, Dowling on image)


Births Mar 1906 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
Dowling Ruby Aston 6d 311


Deaths Jun 1906 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------
Dowling Ruby 0 Aston 6d 193


Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 (Ancestry)

Name: Roby Downing
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1905
Baptism Date: 20 Dec 1905
Baptism Place: Nechells, St Clement, Warwickshire, England
Father: Phillip George Downing
[Phillip Geroge Downing]
Mother: Annie Downing
(Private Baptism. Abode, 70, Malvern Hill Road, Occ Labourer)

Chris :)

As George was registered Sept 1888 and William Sept 1889 there is no way another child Emma could have been born and registered inbetween (mar 1889)

Two baptisms on ancestry


Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912

Name: Jesse Edgar Dowling
Birth Date: 4 Feb 1892
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1892
Baptism Place: Duddeston, St Matthew, Warwickshire, England
Father: Philip George Dowling
Mother: Annie Dowling
Reference Number: EP 66/2/2/3
Archive Roll: Reel 6

Born Feb 4th 1892
Address:- 2 Brighton Place, Rupert Street
Father occupation:- Railway Fireman



Name: Leslie Horace Dowling
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1894
Baptism Date: 25 Mar 1894
Baptism Place: Duddeston, St Matthew, Warwickshire, England
Father: Philip George Dowling
Mother: Annie Dowling
Reference Number: EP 66/2/2/3
Archive Roll: Reel 6

Bron 6th March 1894
Address:- 78 Rupert Street
Father occupation:- Engine Driver

have you been able to find any baptisms for any of the children??


that is your other option ................... see if you can find a baptism for a child that died.

no, the child in 1893 would not have been still born


still born babies were not registered at that time

It must have taken at least one breath after birth to have been registered, and they may well not have got around to a name before it had to be registered.




You may also find that some babies were registered as dead but not registered as born


deaths had to be registered immediately, while births could be registered up to 6 weeks after the date of birth ................


and sometimes the birth registration just got forgotten.

It's all so interesting and you're all so very helpful!! Thank you!

Jax, it could be. That one was not named but there was a girl called Emma Clementina Dowling who was born/died in 1889. The 1893 baby was not named for whatever reason, possibly stillborn? The 1911 census only asks for children born alive then died to be accounted for, so I am inclined to look into the 1889 child. They are the only 2 possibilities. Thanks for your help!

Jayne


The 1911 census was the only census that asked for number of children born and number died, and for number of years married .......

...... and actually the questions re number of years married and number of children were asked of the wife


so it may not always be the number of children born to a marriage :-)

I hadn't thought of checking prior to the 1901 census, there was no column for "children died" on the 1901 census and that is where I "assumed", so thank you. I'm six years out of practise with my genealogy!! Incidentally, I presume/assume that William and Lacey are one and the same, looking at the ages. People swapped namesaround and i need to research if Lacey was a middle name/nickname. Back to my research!!

Could be this one

Deaths Mar 1893 (>99%)
Dowling Female 0 Aston 6d 175

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Dowling Female Aston 6d 238

The children could have been born and died since they married in 1887 not since the last census

a child could have been born and died before the 1901 Census. Have you checked that out??

there is a 3 year gap between Leslie and Laura on the 1901 Census


Name Age
Philip G Dowling 38
Annie Dowling 34
George H Dowling 12
William J Dowling 11
Jesse E Dowling 9
Leslie H Dowling 7 b.ca 1894
Laura M Dowling 4 b.ca 1897
Grace H Dowling 3
Clarence Dowling 1


1911

Name Age
George Dowling 48
Annie Dowling 45
Lacey Dowling 21
Jesse Dowling 19
Laura Dowling 14
Clarence Dowling 11
Arthur Dowling 9
Percy Dowling 8

Good advice Mike re contacting the reg office, stating I only want very specific entry. Thanks for that!

Thank you for all your replies. The children on the 1901 census we have accounted for, although Grace died aged 4. However, in the 1911 census, there is a column for "children born alive" (10) and a column for "children died" (2), so there is one child still not known to us or accounted for, and it would make sense for the child to have been born (& died) between the two censuses.

You could always contact the relevant registry records office with the 5 names and dates and tell them you only want the one which names parents Philip George and Annie

Only 2 baptisms showing for Birmingham

Jesse Edgar b 1892 and Leslie Horace 1894


There are not many births for Aston registration can you not eliminate them searching on the census for them

Why do you think they were born and died between 1901 and 1911 ?

Ahh .... so he was Philip George


Name:
Annie Williams
Birth Year:abt 1866

Marriage Date:14 Feb 1887
Marriage Age:21

Marriage Place:
Birmingham, St Laurence, Warwickshire, England

Spouse:
Philip George Dowling

Spouse Marriage Age:24

Father:
John Williams

Spouse's Father:
William Henry Dowling