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Is it possible that more information could be found for Private 8226 Willie Ashworth.
If or when he died in WW1.
I did once see a photo of him in the Burnley Express but not sure if it was a death or missing in action notice.
Thank you.
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Hi Diane,
I believe there was only one Willie Ashworth. The question is whether you are on to the correct one looking at the info provided on him living at 210 Accrington Road, Burnley with Lilian. None of this information ties in to the Lilian who was left destitute.
The Lilian in the census from 1911 who was living at 40 Bivel Street, Burnley stated that she had been married 7 years and had given birth to 5 children, 2 of whom had died. Her place of birth is Padiham.
Lilian Horrocks was from Padiham and married Willie Ashworth in 1902. She would have been married 8 or 9 years by the time of the census.
Lilian Horrocks' mother Olivia (born Padiham) was widowed and living in Ormerod Street, Nelson in 1911, which would tie her and Willie back in based on the home address on the marriage certificate of Lilian's father of Ormerod Street.
In 1911 a Robert Henry Bradshaw (38 and married) was living alone at 210 Accrington Road, Burnley. What is interesting is that he is a beer house keeper, working at home. So was 210 Accrington Road a pub in those days? From the census it appears to be a normal household though.
Maybe Willie had been lying about his marital status etc. to the army and he'd been living alone at 210 Accrington Road, but then why write to his wife?
The facts do appear to tie Willie and Lilian together but there also appear to be a number of untruths too :-(.
Regards
Paul
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Hi Paul, I don't know why or how you dredged up these two old threads on your first time out here
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/626773
:-)
but Diane may not be looking for updates here so it might be wise to send her a private message.
Meanwhile I wondered, you have >>> Robert Henry Bradshaw in 1911 living at the address where Willie Ashworth lived before? (I haven't absorbed all the info in the thread)
(Edit - no, I see that is the address where 'Mrs Ashworth' lived when she received notice of Willie's death ... so the musings below are plausible. Although he may have declared himself single when he originally enrolled, if he was abandoning her, she may have got onto his records by the time he was called back up for WWI ... she might have kept up a public pretense ... but for him to be writing to her would seem odd, true ...)
Might that tie in with the info on Ida Frances' baptism record in the other thread where we were told that Ashworth was not the father of the two younger girls
Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Ida Frances Ashworth
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1909
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1910
Parish: Preston, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Father: >>> Robert Henry Ashworth
Mother: >>> Lilian Ashworth
a father's name fabricated from the mother's married surname and the real father's real given names?
I would actually suspect he was the father of most or all of her children.
(Children would have had to be registered with the mother's husband as the father, if she told the truth, as Sylvia described on page 2, but for the baptism, far from where the birth was registered, she might have been a little freer with the facts.)
Bradshaw shows as married 5 years in 1911 but no wife present, so perhaps he was estranged from his wife as well.
Marriages Mar 1906
> BRADSHAW Robert Henry Burnley 8e 292
> Hartley Roseanna Burnley 8e 292
HOPKINS Jane Alice Burnley 8e 292
NUTTALL William James Burnley 8e 292
(the other couple are in the 1911 census)
wife and daughter are with her parents in 1911 in Burnley
William Henry Hartley 68
Elizabeth Ann Hartley 62
Albert Edward Hartley 29
James Hartley 26
> Rosannah Bradshaw 38 married 5 years
> Nelly Bradshaw 1/12
this could fit with him being the father of Lilian's younger chldren ... but what of Nelly ... However, there were no other children to the Bradshaw-Hartley marriage before or after Nellie:
BRADSHAW, NELLIE - HARTLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in BURNLEY Volume 08E Page 178
their deaths
Robert H Bradshaw abt 1875 Jun 1939 Burnley Lancashire
Rosanna Bradshaw abt 1873 Dec 1946 Burnley Lancashire
Nellie Bradshaw married Roberts 1944 Burnley
1939 register
Nellie Badlow (Roberts) 1911 Burnley C.B. Lancashire
Roseanna Bradshaw 1870
James Hardly 1886
W?b Ea Hardly 1881
I don't have a sub so can't tell whether Badlow is a mistranscription of Bradshaw, but I would guess it is - the 'Hardly's would be Roseanna's Hartley brothers.
The 1939 register was taken on 29 September 1939 so Robert was deceased, so whether he and Roseanna were estranged, we don't know.
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1939 reg
Frances Ashworth 1909 Bolton C.B. Lancashire - dob 12.12.1909
Fred Ashworth 1904
so that Frances is apparently married
ASHWORTH Fred Bromiley Bolton 8c 640
Bromiley Frances Ashworth Bolton 8c 640
so ruled out
and so this death noted in the other thread:
Frances Ashworth 12.12.1909 Jul 2001 Bolton Lancashire
is not our Ida Frances
==============================================
also, just to add to the baptisms posted by Dea on page 1:
William Mason 1903
Elizabeth Mabel 1907
Thomas Wilfrid 1908
and Ida Frances 1909 with father 'Robert Henry Ashworth'
there were also:
Joseph Ashworth 5 Aug 1900 Woodplumpton
William Ashworth (farmer), Lilian Ashworth
George Ashworth 8 Sep 1901 Willow House, Woodplumpton
William Ashworth (farmer), Lilian Ashworth
That actually makes 6 children born before 1911.
If the youngest, Ida Frances, was the daughter of Robert Henry Bradshaw, it would have made sense for Lilian to answer the census question *children born alive to present marriage* by saying 'five', i.e. five children of Lilian and William Ashworth.
>>> BUT whoops
ASHWORTH, JOSEPH - MASON
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 646
ASHWORTH, GEORGE - MASON
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 619
ASHWORTH, WILLIAM MASON - MASON
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 573
ASHWORTH, ELIZABETH MABEL - MASON
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 590
ASHWORTH, THOMAS WILFRED - MASON
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 627
>>> None of those children was born to Lilian Horrocks.
Marriages Sep 1898
Ashworth William Preston 8e 1013
Mason Lilian Preston 8e 1013
>>> Lilian Horrocks Ashworth's children were:
ASHWORTH, FRED - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 262
- died Dec Q 1902
ASHWORTH, ELLA - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 158
- died Jun Q 1907
ASHWORTH, STANLEY - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 271
ASHWORTH, IDA FRANCES - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 473
that makes four ... might she have counted a stillbirth as a birth and deceased child? or a child who died immediately after birth, death registered but not birth?
? ASHWORTH, ALICE MARTINS - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in BURNLEY Volume 08E Page 404
(is 'Martins' a clue to father's surname?)
There are other Ashworth-Horrocks marriages/births, none in Burnley.
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