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Hello everybody. I wonder if anyone has any ideas as to where I go next in tracing my Great Gran. I have a 1911 census with Thomas Burr on it born 1866 married to an Annie also born 1866. They have two children. James born 1898 and Maud born 1896 (my Gran). (They did have 4 but 2 died) They say that they have been married 21 years (so 1891 or near as). In 1891 Thomas Burr is single at the time of the census. I cannot find a marriage certificate for a Thomas Burr and Annie - except for one in Altrincham, Cheshire. This is not them. Annie states that she was born in Peckham. Thomas was born in Hertfordshire. I did think at one time it was Annie Bates but that is now unlikely.Possibly never married?? Anyone any ideas?
Thank you all so much. Lesley Sherman :-D

John Thomas Burr, Carpenter Grenadier Guards
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Age: 23
Spouse: Annie Beatrice Guyatt
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1889
Parish: Holy Trinity, Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: John Burr, Deceased
Spouse Father: Robert Guyana, Deceased
Register Type: Parish Register

??????

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription
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First name(s) THOMAS
Last name BURR
Birth year 1865
Birth parish HEMEL HEMPSTEAD
Birth town HEMEL HEMPSTEAD
Birth county HERTFORDSHIRE
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 729
Rank -
Regiment Grenadier Guards
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1886
Attestation Day 30
Attestation Month 12
Attestation age years 21
Attestation age months 8
Attestation Corps Grenadier Guards
Attestation service number 729
Discharge Corps Grenadier Guards
Series WO97 chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 2410
Box Record Number 144
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

father John

discharged 29/12/1898

1891


Name: Annie B Burr
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Where born: Peckham, London, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Aldermary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Aldermary
Town: London City
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: London City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 239
Folio: 136
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
William Thorpe 42
Charlotte Thorpe 45
Florence M Thorpe 41
Henry Thorpe 9
Charlotte L Thorpe 8
John Ormond Pratt 33
Elizabeth Saunders 37
Estelle Thompson 26
Stasia Kent 25
Jane Bourne 27
Edith I Arnold 19
Amelia R Burtwell 20
Ada A Moss 24
Emily A Moore 21
Clara Allen 31
Annie B Burr 29 <<<<<<<<<<Married
Lily Stewart 20
Lily Jacobs 23

ANNA BEATRICE
Last name GUYATT
Birth year 1860
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District BERMONDSEY
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 69
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

© brightsolid online publishing ltd

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Ages change in 1901 but it appears to be the same couple

Annie Burr
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Thomas Burr
Birth Place: Peckham, London, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Search Photos: Search for 'Lambeth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Norwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 437
Folio: 32
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Burr 40, b. Hemel Hampstead
Annie Burr 38
James Burr 3
Maud Burr 5

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James Burr
England and Wales Census, 1901
Name James Burr
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Lambeth, London, Middlesex, England
County London, Middlesex
Civil Parish Lambeth
Ecclesiastical Parish St Luke
Sub-District Norwood
Registration District Lambeth
Residence Note Dunbar Street
Gender Male
Age 3
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birth Year (Estimated) 1898
Birthplace Walwich, London
Schedule Type 44
Page Number 6
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Thomas Burr Head M 40 Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
Annie Burr Wife F 38 Peckham, London
James Burr Son M 3 Walwich, London
Maud Burr Daughter F 5 Norwood, London

1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
17, Sumner Road, Camberwell, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Guyatt Head Married Male 51 1830 Saddler Amport, Surrey, England
Transcription
Annie Guyatt Wife Married Female 47 1834 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Annie Guyatt Daughter Single Female 20 1861 Machinist Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Alice Guyatt Daughter Single Female 18 1863 Machinist Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Louisa Guyatt Daughter Single Female 16 1865 Machinist Peckham, Surrey, England
Transcription
Albert Guyatt Son Single Male 14 1867 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Transcription
Edmund Guyatt Son Single Male 12 1869 Scholar Lambeth, Surrey, England


Street 17 Sumner Road
Town -
Parish Camberwell
County London, Surrey
Country England
Registration district Camberwell

perhaps they married later in woolwich

Thomas Burr
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005
marriage: 1912 Woolwich, London, England
spouse: Tuffield
other: Annie B Tuffield

Malyon, you don't think the marriage found is correct?

This looks like the Annie who married in 1912 and Her age is wrong. And the Thomas Burr is with her family in 1911 and his age is wrong too.

1911

Name: Annie Beatrice Tuffield
[Annie Beatrice Lockwood]
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Grandchild
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Woolwich
Civil Parish: Woolwich
Search Photos: Search for 'Woolwich' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 62 Church Hill, Church Street, Woolwich
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: BANK CLERK
[Shorthand Typist]
Registration district: Woolwich
Registration District Number: 30
Sub-registration district: Woolwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 2867
Household Members:
Name Age
Harriot Ann Lockwood 85
Harriot Sophia Tuffield 56
Emily Ann Lockwood 54
Louisa Jane Lockwood 52
Ada Warren Lockwood 48
Annie Beatrice Tuffield 25
Thomas Tuffield 22
Thomas Burr 25

Annie seems to have been a little vague with her age...

1861 Census
Name: Anna B Guyatt
Age: 10/12
Estimated birth year: 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Robert F Guyatt
Mother's name: Anne Guyatt
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: 19 William Street
Registration district: Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St Mary Magdalen
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 322
Folio: 24
Page Number: 12

Household Members:
Name Age
Robert F Guyatt 32 Sadler and Army Accouterment Maker born Amport Hampshire
Anne Guyatt 27 Born Islington
Arthur R A Guyatt 7 Born Islington
Anna B Guyatt 10/12 Born Bermondsey

The marriage entry given by Rootgatherer above shows Annie's father to be Robert, a saddler.

Chris

Love the "Army accouterments maker" bit Chris :-)

Hello everybody. Thanks for getting back so quick. Thomas 's father was William b.1840 -1890. So I'm not sure if it is Annie Beatrice Guyatt. I know the 1911 census is correct and also the 1901 census. It would make sense geographically and age wise if it was Annie Beatrice especially as it is Annie B. I wil revisit my records and see what they throw up. The army record was interesting Maddie. Thank you. When Thomas puts down next of kin is it just "Father and address Johnsfield, High Street, Hemel Hempstead?"Just a thought. I'm brain storming myself. If I have Thomas ' s father wrong I will have to rewrite my tree. Perhaps he is John Thomas Burr? I will have to look for a birth record. Thank you all. Regards Lesley :-)

Lesley, if you don't have the marriage, can I ask please how you know that Thomas's father was William?

This looks like Maud's marriage and her father is Thomas John Burr (one of the witnesses). I feel pretty sure that we have the correct marriage for Thomas and Annie.


Maud Annie Burr
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Age: 24
Spouse: Frederick Francis
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Nov 1919
Parish: Christ Church, Greenwich, East
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Thomas John Burr
Spouse Father: William Francis
Register Type: Parish Register

Maud's birth certificate would confirm her mother's maiden surname.

Maud Annie Burr
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 189

Is this your Gran in 1939 please?

Maud A Francis on the 1939 Register

1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
Francis Household (2 People)
359 Lodge Avenue , Barking M.B., Essex, England

Frederick Francis
DOB 11 Jun 1893
SEX Male
OCCUPATION Weight Watchman
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 83
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Maud A Francis
DOB 09 Aug 1895
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Dut
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 83
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2

There is also one closed record with them.

Think John Thomas wasn't accurate with his year of birth on census records either.

John Thomas Burr
Registration Year: 1861
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 324

If you don't already have it, I think you first step is to buy a copy of your Gran's birth certificate to find out her mother's maiden surname.

It can be very difficult to build an accurate tree without buying certificates.

Come back and let us know how you get on please.

Hello everybody. Thank you so much for all of your input. I have now ordered a copy of my Gran's birth certificate. I had a short version of it because my Dad had ordered one in 1952 for some reason. Thank you rootgatherer. I quite agree it is prudent to order certificates. I do have the marriage certificate of Frederick Francis and Maud Annie Burr. This does state that Maud's Dad was Thomas John Burr and that does make me think that I will be rewriting my family tree. And yes that is my Gran in 1939 at 359 Lodge Avenue. I thought that Thomas's father was William because I had found a Thomas Burr born in 1868 who seemed to match all of my criteria. In the census it states that his father was William. It looks like I was very wrong here. I can see that Thomas John/John Thomas wasn't very accurate with his birth date. I have now found the birth of a John Thomas born 1861 in Hemel Hempstead which is most probably my Great Granddad. Why would he call himself Thomas John when his birth says John Thomas? I will await the birth certificate with excitement of Maud Annie. Once I have her mum's maiden name I can put everything right. Thank you all again.
Lesley :-D