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Just ordered the death certs for Alice Slaughter in 1910 Brentford and John R Hellings 1952 Rowley Regis, hoping this may be my Alice!!!

Pamela, that is the way the registration info appears at FreeBMD

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

when read with the headings there it means

John R Hellings
died March 1952
age 83
registration district Rowley R (Rowley Regis)
volume 9b
page 342.

it's the most succinct way of posting that info, copying it from freebmd, rather than some other sites that take up a whole monitor to say the same thing when posted here with all their spaces and disjointed lines and extraneous copyright info etc :-)

I was referring to the possible Robert Hellings in Kingswinford in 1901

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/rowley%20regis.html
(covers Kingswinford)

and to the fact that the age at death in 1952 exactly matched the quarter of birth of your John Robert Hellings

Births Jun 1868
HELLINGS John Robert Whitechapel 1c 361

i.e. in jan-mar quarter 1952, he had not yet had his 84th birthday

and there is no other birth that does match that death


edit

the 1939 register has

Homer Household (3 People)
17 Bent Street , Brierley Hill U.D., Staffordshire, England
Robert Hellings 09 Apr 1871 Male Furnace Fitter Single
George H Homer 31 May 1881 Male Iron Moulder Married
Gertrude Homer 26 Oct 1882 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

there is no birth record to match that 1871 birthdate

I have just checked Deceased online, the burial in Islington Cemetery in 1910 is of Alice Slaughter who died in The Cottage Hospital North Finchley aged 46. I only purchased £5 voucher, there is another Alice buried at Camberwell Cemetery in December 1920, however the voucher had run out to see where she had died. Probably will have to obtain death certificates. Many thanks for the help and suggestions.

Sorry was referring to the post referring to the death of John R Hellings March 1952 83 Rowley R 9b 342. I wasn't sure if it refers to an address or an area of the country.

Sorry Det. Just read back and see that you already posted the grave record, I'll delete

Pamela

Check out deceased online using the advanced search facility, there are a few 'Slaughters' buried there. You might pick up on a name which might indicate that it is a 'family' burial place

'could you enlighten me please as to where 83 Rowley R'

Not sure what you mean by your request above?

Burial Posted earlier with associated deaths

Deaths Sep 1910 (>99%)
Slaughter Alice 46 Barnet 3a 150
Slaughter Alice 36 Brentford 3a 27 <<< the one Pamela had found

It might be worth considering buying credits for Deceasedonline to view the burial register. Think the minimum spend is £5. If Pamela is lucky, it might give her last address or the place of death.

I have got a birth certificate for Edwin Alfred Hellings born March 14th 1899 at 5 Egleton Road, father John Robert Hellings general labourer, mother A Hellings, formerly McGregor. I think that i found the info on the rest of this family on websites. I must admit that i only followed this route in the hope that i would find my great grandmother, i am not really that interested in them, could you enlighten me please as to where 83 Rowley R is regarding John Robert Hellings death.

Joonie
I believe that there were 2 Slaughter families in that area that were not linked, i certainly have not come across the ones that you have found in the other street.Many thanks for your researching, i am really grateful.

Yes Gins i do have her full birth date, it is 26th November 1871, she was born at 60 Charlotte Street Whitechapel, the certificate was registered on 5th January 1872. father unknown, her marriage certificate states father as John Hellings,gas fitter as we know this is untrue as John Hellings died on 25th August 1868 at 1 Carter St Bethnal Green, he was a non conformist aged 22 years.he was buried on August 28th 1868 in Hackney. I wondered if there are any Bastardy Bonds that may be available regards Ann and Alice, these would be helpful if they named the father of Alice.

odd mark Gins, looks like a left-leaning capital T written over the M ... or maybe rather under it. I doubt we could ever figure that out! I will vote random mark ... I don't think anyone checked up on marital status or anything.

so the question is: why did he report married?

did you notice the other Slaughters on the page? (different street)
Jessie, widow, 1881
Edward E, single, 1906
Harold E, single, 1909
are they coincidence?

1911
Edward Slaughter 29
Jessie Slaughter 29
Edward Slaughter 5
Harold Slaughter 1

coincidence it seems.


if Alice lived to 1969 the full dob could help find a death, but living to that age is against the odds.

it would certainly help to find her if she was living in 1939 though!

Pamela

You don't happen to have Alice' full birth date do you?

Wow what a lot of information that you have found. John Thomas had left the money to his eldest son John Walter Slaughter bakery manager who was my grandfather, he was living in Southall at the time and died in March 1945 before i was born.
Charles Henry died in October 1914 in France, i have seen his name on The Menin Gate, he left his effects of £19.19s and fourpence to a Marion Facey. I was pleased to find that Alice was still around in 1907. John Thomas Slaughter was living in 1904 81 East Rd, 1911 24 East Rd, 1916 45 Saxon Rd,1940 30 Loxford Lane Ilford, he was buried with daughters Elizabeth Tolladay and Ann Jacques who had married Henry William Jacques in June 1918, on the marriage certificate Annies address was given as 12 Dorset Rd Upton Park and Henry also Dorset Rd possibly number 14.

Joonie

Take a look at the image for that 1939 record. There is a blue ink mark in the section for 'marital' status where it declares John as being married

I cannot make out what it is?

that is indeed the 1939 household I was trying to look at Gins, and FMP has finally let me see it. I kept trying! but the site was down for a long time:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1359794

So that is for sure 'our' John Thomas Slaughter ... daughter Elizabeth Tolladay 1896 is Elizabeth Slaughter aged 14 in the 1911 census.

Births Dec 1896
Slaughter Elizabeth Frances A W. Ham 4a 210

And John reports 'married'.

Now I have to figure out what else is going on here. :-)

According to Charles Henry's military file, Alice was still at home in Sept 1907:

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

name(s) CHARLES HENRY SLAUGHTER
Birth year 1890
Birth town BOW
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 5431
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1907
Attestation Day 18
Attestation Month 9
Attestation age years 17
Attestation age months 8
Attestation Corps 5TH BN MIDDLESEX REGT
Attestation service number 543

Next of Kin: 24 East (Earl?) Road, Portway
Father: John
Mother: Alice
Brother: John
Brother: William

Relating to the censuses above.

John William Hillings
Baptism 27th Feb 1890
Bromley, Tower Hamlets
Father: John Robert
Mother Alice Macgregor

Have you tried just checking for her under initials? Inmates in Asylums/ Workhouses were often just listed under initials.

1911
Name: A S
Age in 1911: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Patient (Lunatic)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Hoxton, London, England
Civil Parish: Epsom
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: London County Council, Long Grove Asylum, Epsom
Marital Status: MarrieD
Registration district: Epsom
Registration District Number: 31
Sub-registration district: Epsom
ED, institution, or vessel: 18-24
Piece: 2965

Just going on Jonnie' info. Is this John in 1939?


Tolladay Household (4 People)
30 Loxford Lane , Ilford M.B., Essex, England

John T Slaughter 26 Jul 1865 Male Boiler Attendant (Retired) Married 156 4
Arthur W Tolladay 14 Mar 1892 Male Electric Train Driver L Married 156 1
Elizabeth F Tolladay 23 Oct 1896 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 156 2
Leslie W Tolladay 07 Sep 1921 Male Clerical Officer (Civil Ser Single 156 3

Joonie, that death is correct. Here's the probate (with Will)

John Thomas Slaughter (same address as above)
Died 14th Sept 1940
Admin to: John Walter Slaughter, Bakery Manager £ 588 3s

Also, a possible for Edwin? Ancestry has a whole load of other people living at the same address on the below census


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9 Egleton Road Bromley by Bow, Poplar Borough, London, England

Alice McGregor Head Widow Female - 49 1862 Stackwell London
John William McGregor Son Single Male Printers Machine Hand 21 1890 Bromley London
Robert McGregor Son Single Male Pawnbrokers Assistant 17 1894 Westham Essex
Charles McGregor Son Single Male Vanguard 14 1897 Westham Essex
Edwin Hellings Son - Male School 12 1899 Bromley London

And in 1901

Added: This looks like Alice Stone (her father was Clement Stone see above on Joonie' post) who married John McGregor in 1884 but the couple are not together in 1891. Maybe she was in a relationship John T Hellings

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5, Egleton Road, London, Bromley, Poplar, England

Alice McGregor Head Married Female 39 1862 - Blackwall, London, England
John McGregor Son - Male 11 1890 - Bromley, Middlesex, England
Robert McGregor Son - Male 7 1894 - Stratford, London, England
Ann McGregor Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Stratford, London, England
Charles McGregor Son - Male 4 1897 - Stratford, London, England
Edwin McGregor Son - Male 2 1899 - Bromley, Middlesex, England

Might be worth getting this death certificate


Deaths Mar 1917
McGregor Alice 55 Poplar 1c 614


And would this birth match the baptism that Joonie posted?

Sept 1896
McGregor Charles Clement W. Ham 4a 178

it's rather odd, Alice is at 9 Egleton Rd 1912-1916, John Robert is at 5 Egleton Rd 1902-1908

Alice could have been there but not a voter before 1912?

Name: Charles Clement Hellings
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Jun 1896
Father's name: John Robert Hellings
Mother's name: Alice Hellings
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

but no registration?

Births Jun 1899
Hellings Edwin Alfred Poplar 1c 607

and no apparent marriage

I don't see them in censuses ...


a bit of a tragic sequence of events for Edwin

Marriages Dec 1919
Hellings Edwin A Dabbs Poplar 1c 857

Deaths Dec 1923
Hellings Edwin A 24 Poplar 1c 411

Births Jun 1924
Hellings Edwin A Dabbs Poplar 1c 633

Marriages Jun 1947
Hellings Edwin A Still Hackney 5c 1689


you have the Edwins Sr and Jr in your tree on spec I guess?

do you know the other people who have Edwin Sr?

someone also has an Edwin 1912 Bow, who doesn't seem to exist in birth regs


the John R Hellings death I posted did match your John Robert's age exactly

Deaths Mar 1952
HELLINGS John R 83 Rowley R. 9b 342

Yes Alice was my great grandmother. My mother married into the Slaughter family in 1935 but never met Alice or John, she was told that Alice had disappeared and nobody knew what had happened to her. John Thomas Slaughter died in 1940 at his son in laws home, Loxford Lane Iford, he is buried in Rippleside cemetery Barking, his 2 daughters are buried in the same grave.

On the 1881 census (just before Ann married Albert Edward Mason) Ann and Alice wre living in Whitechapel at Cayley Street, John was not with them and they were listed as HILLINGS, I have wondered if John Robert was in fact the boy in Dr Barnado's but i he never seems to appear on any census. I have found a John Robert Hellings on electoral rolls living in Egleton Rd, at numbers 5 and 9, he was living with a woman called Alice Hellings and they had 2 sons,Charles Clement Hellings born 1896 and Edwin Alfred Hellings born 1899, i seem to remember checking to find that her name wasn't really Hellings. I have the house upside down at the moment and cannot get to all my information.