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I never knew exactly where Christie's Hospital was, yet we lived near Manchester and I well remember my mother having to take her brother there for some treatment back in the early 1950s.

I believe it is considered one of the best, if not THE best, cancer treatment places in England.

Re a hospital in or near Palatine Road -

That's where the Christie hospital is (and also was in 1939). Its official address is Wilmslow Road, but Palatine Road runs along the other side of the hospital site.

http://www.nhs.uk/Services/hospitals/MapsAndDirections/DefaultView.aspx?id=101

History of the hospital:

http://tinyurl.com/zwez5uu

Also earlier history :

The Christie Hospital was established in 1892 as the Cancer Pavilion and Home for Incurables (the 'Incurables' in the title was deleted very early on). It was the first hospital to make use of the substantial Whitworth legacy, part of which had been used to create the Estate Owens College Hospital Estate off Oxford Road on which the hospital was built. Christie, one of the legatees of the Whitworth Estate and Professor at Owens College, was elected the first president of the Hospital. The Cancer Pavilion was a large house, called Stanley House, which was converted into a hospital. An extension was added in 1901 bringing the number of beds to thirty, and the same year the Home was named the Christie Hospital (while also retaining its original title).

That's from this page:
http://archiveshub.ac.uk/data/gb133-chc

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There seem to be some staff records in that archive.
If you click on CHC Box 10 in the menu on the left of that page above, you'll see it contains the Nursing Staff Register for 1921-38
. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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http://archiveshub.ac.uk/data/gb133-chc
This material is held at The University of Manchester Library
Reference Number(s) GB 133 CHC
Dates of Creation 1891-1998
Name of Creator Christie Hospital and Holt Radium Institute, Manchester ; Brian William Fox, 1929-1999, professor of experimental chemotherapy
Language of Material English
Physical Description 5.8 li.m. Some items in poor condition.
Location Collection available at University Archive and Records Centre, main University Library.


Manchester University Archives:
http://tinyurl.com/h7dpznc

re the 1939 Register ............ looking at the image on FindMyPast, I THINK that it might have been a sort of Nurses' Residence.

There are a total of 11 people definitely living there, all of the ones that are open to see are Nurses or Assistants, except for the first one (Resident No 1) Jane Hanson, who is Housekeeper.

There are 3 closed records, then the next address showing is 41 Palatine Road, so the 3 closed records may be living at 37 OR at 39 Palatine (addresses do follow a sequence).

41 Palatine Road is occupied by a Registered Medical Practitioner, his wife, and an apparently unrelated person shown as Secretary to Medical Practice ........ so obviously his practice is in his house.

43 Palatine Road is occupied by a Physician and Surgeon

Another Consulting Physician is at 51 Palatine

Plus at least 2 Assistant Nurses living at no 35 (with other people seemingly non-medical)


it almost looks like "medical row"!!!!

I wonder if there is a hospital close by?


There are 2 possible reasons why Elsie is shown as "widow"

1. it is the wrong Elsie

2. She lied to get the job ............. I note that all the women shown as nursing staff (and even the Housekeeper Jane Hanson) are shown as either Single or Widow ..... maybe married women were not supposed to work as nurses OR possibly to live in the nurses home/hostel

Sylvia,
Leslie was with his mum before he was placed in the orphanage. Maybe he was placed in there when James returned. leslie remembers his Mum and James visiting him in the orphanage occasionally. He told me they stopped visiting (? when he was 8) and he never saw them again.
I don't think James wanted him. And those that knew something have all passed away now.

Leslie did tell me that when he was 18 he went to visit his aunt Ruth (he wasn''t able to remember her name) and a cousin happened to start telling him that his Mum had gone to Canada. His aunt walks in the room and tells his cousin to hush. This must be Doris as he said his cousin was female but he couldn't remember her name either.

Leslie doesn't feel any anger but just wants answers.

Kucinta Thank you for the latest information which I have noted.

I did try and find out what 37 Palatine road was but couldn't really find much. Maybe it was just a house. I noticed Elsie was an Assistant Nurse Widow. She was married at this point but it is interesting that she was a widow on the 1939 register.

Another Hall at No 19 Mitchell St, again the name is common.

Hall Household (4 People) 19 Mitchell Street , Manchester C.B., Lancashire, England

John William Hall 11 Jan 1869 Male Pensioner Widowed 181 1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

1 more person who is officially closed

Herbert H Burroughs 21 Aug 1873 Male Engineers Labourer Widowed 181 2

1 more person who is officially closed

Frank H Boodle 11 May 1893 Male Decorator - ?ougler Married 181 3

1 more person who is officially closed

Edith M Boodle 20 Jan 1894 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 181 4

1 more person who is officially closed

I guess Hall is a common surname, there are these two ladies living at 14 Michell ST, NOT 15, in 1939, so probably red herrings.

Hall Household (2 People) 14 Mitchell Street , Manchester C.B., Lancashire,

Anne Hall 14 Jan 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 14 2

1 more person who is officially closed

Winifred Hall 06 Dec 1915 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 14 1

( paged back and forth but didn't spot No 15 in the images)

It looks like Ruth Wilkinson Boydell and husband Sam[uel] may have had a daughter called Doris approx the same age as Leslie, registered Sept 1934 in Leigh R D. Their abode in 1939 (Golborne) comes under Leigh R D.

Looks like Doris probably married in the 1950s in Leigh R D, but there are two potential marriages...

JEH .

you posted ........

"Leslie birth certificate: Leslie's Mother Elsie Hall a Housekeeper 0f 18 Dean terrace, Walbottle Northumberland. E Hall Mother Oakhill Home Cheetham Hill. Leslie was born at 15 Mitchell Street, Manchester."

"Dean" must be a mis-spelling by the Registrar for Dene ...... easily done as Dene is an unusual spelling.

15 Mitchell Street might have a house occupied by the local nurse ............. it was quite common in the days before the NHS for midwives or the local nurse to take one or two pregnant women into her own home for them to give birth. If you ever read any of the James Herriot's books, there is at least one description of such a place where his child was born.

You say that Leslie was placed in the Styal Cottage Homes when he was 3 ......... where was he until then? Was he with his mother? That means he was placed in there in ca 1937?

Maybe he was placed there after James returned home from an extended trip?

The reason could very well remain unknown as everyone wo knew will be dead by now.

The 1939 Register formed the basis for the NHS when that came in in 1947, and was regularly updated from other records until about 1991 .... that's why you get name changes for women who were married after 1939.

FMP is in the process of continuing that updating as they receive certificates from users and from records such as freebmd and GRO

A "closed record" on the 1939 Register means that the person named was born after 1915, and there has been no record of their death.

I've managed to trace one relative on the Wilkinson side but they can't answer any questions about Leslie. They did not know Leslie existed until hot matches on here. Leslie and that relative are in regular contact.

Another contact on here gave me as much information as they could from their Mother but they could not give anymore.

I've not been able to trace anyone else.

Thank you for all the information from the 1939 register and 1911 census.

When you said two closed records what does that mean?

You said earlier you were interested in tracing living family for Leslie - have you already traced the lines for his mother Elsie's siblings?

Ruth Wilkinson [Hall] Boydell in 1939? Looks like she was a nurse too.


Boydell Household (2 People) 07 Kings Avenue , Golborne U.D., Lancashire,

Ruth W Boydell 06 Feb 1905 Female Full Time Nurse Married 60 2

1 more person who is officially closed

~??? Boydell 21 Jan 1910 Male Omibus Driver Married 60 1

1 more person who is officially closed

The -??? Boydell looks like Sam Boydell.

The two closed records may be children of the couple. EDIT Looking at the image, one of the closed records may actually belong to the household at No 5 King's Ave.

EDIT: Presumably Ruth got her middle name from her mother's maiden name:

Marriages Jun 1888
Branagan John Newcastle T. 10b 87
Hall Edward Newcastle T 10b 87 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Joplin Annie Newcastle T. 10b 87
WILKINSON Elizabeth Ann Newcastle T. 10b 87<<<<<<<<<<

Edward and Elizabeth Ann in 1939 in Dene Terrace:

Hall Household (2 People) 18 Dene Terrace , Newburn U.D., Northumberland,

Edward Hall 04 Mar 1867 Male Master Blacksmith - Retired Married 208 1
Elizabeth A Hall 16 Aug 1867 Female Domestic Duties Unpaid Married 208 2

I forgot to add to that 1911 census for 17 Boyd Street Newburn on Tyne, Newburn, Northumberland, England, that Edward and Elizabeth Ann had been married for 23 years, had 11 children of whom 10 were still living and 1 was deceased at the time of census 1911.

Kucinta It's the correct family. One was a footballer. There was possibly another footballer brother too.

Thank you for the 1911 census info. That's new to me.

I've also emailed The Salvation army Heritage centre to see if they have records of Oakhill. Awaiting reply. I'd emailed the family tracing dept which was the wrong dept.

It is Dene Terrace where they lived.

A lot of the above information I already found except from the 1939 register which I hadn't. Thank you to Shirley for this additional info. I'm trying to go back to Elsie's Oakhill Home stay to see if I can establish more information. I do have Elsie and James marriage certificate and from the stories Leslie told me I know from records what is all correct.
I know that James worked on the ships and was often away. I've got all Elsie's siblings and she had a sister Ruth Wilkinson Hall who married a Samuel Boydell in Leigh Lancs. One of the records says Elsie was born Lancs which fooled me but eventually I traced her to Wallbottle Northumberland. That was a tricky find. I have her birth certificate.
Elsie and James marriage certificate Elsie's father was Edward Hall a Blacksmith at Steelworks. Elsie was residing at a Mental Colony Shotley Bidge. She was a Mental Nurse. James father was Edward Nelson a Steel Moulder. James was a Marine engineer of 9 Richmond Terrace. Witnesses: Edward Hall and Frances Brown.

Leslie birth certificate: Leslie's Mother Elsie Hall a Housekeeper 0f 18 Dean terrace, Walbottle Northumberland. E Hall Mother Oakhill Home Cheetham Hill. Leslie was born at 15 Mitchell Street, Manchester.

I've looked at the census records relating to James.
I think Leslie was given the middle name Nelson from James brother but this is only a guess. James had a brother Thomas Nelson and I often wonder if he had something to do with Leslie. Leslie was named after an Uncle Leslie, a brother of Elsie's.

Thomas seemed to be living in England for a while but then he emigrated to America and married a lady called Jean and they have 2 daughters.

This looks a better bet in 1911 for an Elsie born Newburn, Northumberland as the heading says, with father named Edward (from Sylvia's travel info)


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Censu

17 Boyd Street Newburn on Tyne, Newburn, Northumberland, England

Edward Hall Head Married Male Blacksmith 44 1867 Lemington Northumberland
Elizabeth Ann Hall Wife Married Female - 43 1868 Newburn Northd
Thomas Hall Son Single Male Professional Footballer 19 1892 Newburn Northd
Robert Hall Son Single Male Labour Sand Mills 16 1895 Newburn Northd
Ernest William Hall Son - Male Labourer Belowground 14 1897 Newburn Northd
Frances Hall Daughter - Female - 10 1901 Newburn Northd
Bertie Hall Son - Male - 8 1903 Newburn Northd
Ruth Wilkinson Hall Daughter - Female - 6 1905 Newburn Northd
John Hall Son - Male - 12 1899 Newburn Northd
Elsie Hall Daughter - Female - 2 1909 Newburn Northd<<<

Not sure if this is a red herring, only going by the coincidence of Dene Terrace, This Edward Hall would have to be a brother rather than a father if related....EDIT unless the birth years are mistranscribed, as he is retired.

from Sylvia's post

Elsie Nelson
Home Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Wallbottle, Northumberland
Date and Place of Birth:- 9 September 1908, Leigh, Lancashire
Name and Address of Nearest Relative at Home:- Father, Edward Hall, 18 Dene (or Done) Terrace, Walbottle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In transit to Ontario, Canada, 1 day
British Passport issued July 17 1947


1939 register:

Hall Household (3 People) 5 Dene Terrace , Hexham R.D., Northumberland, England

Edward Hall 14 Oct 1910 Male Raiway Foreman (Retired Married 28 1
Minnie Hall 02 Mar 1874 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 28 2
Dora Tennick (Hall) 14 Oct 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 28 3

HOWEVER I think the dates for Edward and Minnie are possibly wrong as they could read 10 & 14 for the year, or 90 and 94, or 70 and 74.

If this was the same family in 1911, they don't seem to have Elsie with them. The image also says 5 children born and still living, these are all accounted for on the census image:


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census

6 Cotfield St Gateshead, Gateshead, Durham, England

Edward Hall Head Married Male Shed Turner Ry Loco Dept 40 1871 Cumberland Carlisle
Minnie Hall Wife Married Female - 36 1875 Durham Gateshead
Minnie Ann Hall Daughter Single Female - 18 1893 Durham Gateshead
Ada Louisa Hall Daughter Single Female - 16 1895 Durham Gateshead
John Hall Son - Male Insurance Clerk 14 1897 Durham Gateshead
Walter Hall Son - Male - 12 1899 Durham Gateshead
Edward Hall Son - Male - 7 1904 Durham Gateshead

I'll leave for elimination. Shame, as I was quite keen on the Dene Terrace connection.

Have you seen Elsie and James' marriage certificate?

If so, please can you tell us the name of her father, his occupation, and the names of witnesses?

This record is on FMP, and COULD be an answer as to why James didn't acknowledge Leslie if he was out of the country on a ship ..........


New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Transcription

First name(s) James Mitchell
Last name Nelson
Sex Male
Age 35
Birth year 1910
Birth place British
Arrival year 1945
Arrival city New York
Arrival state New York
Arrival country United States
Ship name Raby Castle
Country United States
Film number 002310704
NARA roll number 6899
NARA publication number T715
Record set New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from United States & Canada

from image:-

Member of Crew (and also member of crew on ship's previous visit ot US)
Position:- 3rd Engineer
Time of Service at Sea:- 14 years <<<<<<<<<
5' 10"
163 lbs
Physical abnormalities:- Joint right hand amputated



New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Transcription

First name(s) James Mitchell
Last name Nelson
Sex Male
Birth place Walbottle Northd England
Arrival year 1947
Arrival city New York
Arrival state New York
Arrival country United States
Ship name Plane Nc 88865
Country United States
Film number 002296197
NARA roll number 7460
NARA publication number T715
Record set New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from United States & Canada

from image:-
Elsie Nelson
Home Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Wallbottle, Northumberland
Date and Place of Birth:- 9 September 1908, Leigh, Lancashire
Name and Address of Nearest Relative at Home:- Father, Edward Hall, 18 Dene (or Done) Terrace, Walbottle
In transit to Ontario, Canada, 1 day
British Passport issued July 17 1947

James Mitchell Nelson
Date and Place of Birth:- June 28, 1909, Walbottle
Right third finger short
Nearest Relative at home:- Mother, Mrs Dorothy Nelson, 9 Richmond Terrace, Walbottle
In transit to Canada, 1 day
British Passport issued Aug 27 1942, at Bombay


and this must have been one of his first trips across the Atlantic ..........


Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription

First name(s) JAMES
Last name NELSON
Gender Male
Age 21
Birth year 1909
Occupation MARINE ENGINEER
Departure year 1930
Departure day 29
Departure month 8
Departure port LIVERPOOL
Destination port MONTREAL
Destination MONTREAL
Country CANADA
Destination country CANADA
Ship name ANDANIA
Ship official number 145934
Ship master's first name A C
Ship master's last name GREIG
Shipping line CUNARD
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port MONTREAL
Ship destination country CANADA
Ship square feet 11001
Ship registered tonnage 8391
Number of passengers 272
Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from Australia & New Zealand, United Kingdom, Ireland, United States & Canada

from image:-
Passenger
Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Walbottle
Cabin Passenger
Going to Montreal