Find Ancestors

This is AG's Harpers at 483
1911 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002001717.pdf

I've pm'ed the 1921 image to Karen (1921_071-e002942394.jpg)

His sister looks like Mrs H G Harper aka Mrs Marian Harper.
So did she wed an older son of this couple


Using
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=CANADA

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMF4-K68 [with image link]
George Frederick Harper
Ontario Births
Name George Frederick Harper
Event Type Birth
Event Date 29 Nov 1903
Event Place London City, Middlesex, Ontario, Canada
Gender Male
Father's Name Frederick Faber Harper
Mother's Name Kathleen Hutchinson

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FM6L-Q2B [with image link]
Name Virginia Harper
Event Type Birth
Event Date 11 Apr 1902
etc

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV9H-5XSB [with image link]
Name Faber Arlosh Harper
Event Type Birth
Event Date 17 Feb 1910
etc.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JD1V-WM7 [with image link]
Name Frederick Faber Harper
Event Type Death
Event Date 29 Dec 1921
Event Place London, Middlesex, Ontario
Gender Male
Age 60
Birth Date 09 Sep 1861
Birthplace Port Hope, Ont.
Burial Date 31 Dec 1921
Father's Name William F. Harper
Mother's Name Margaret Mary Livingston
Spouse's Name Kathleen H. Harper

but this is just the 1911 mob - here's 1901

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON LONDON (City/Cité) (#86)
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 4 D-1 Page 12
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-6480
47 123 Harper Frederick M Head M Sep 9 1861 39
48 123 Harper Kathleen F Wife M Jan 18 1875 26
49 123 Hutchinson Marion F Mother W Jun 6 1842 58
50 123 Peakes Lizzie F Domestic S Mar 15 29
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000080428.pdf
Sched 2 http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000080414.pdf
[Page 12 Line 47 addy=483 Colborne St]

So doesn't look like they hasd an older son




Here's 585 Colborne in 1911 and 1921:

1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / London / 34 London / page 6
21 71 Mansetle Wm. M Head M Sep 1866 44
22 71 Mansetle Jessie F Wife M Jul 1868 42
23 71 Mansetle Frank M Son S May 1902 9
24 71 Gordon Lucy F Domestic S Aug 1888 27
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002001789.pdf
[addy=585 Colbourne]

1921 Census of Canada
Name: Albert Masuret
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 45
Birth Year: abt 1876
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Marjorie Masuret
Father Birth Place: Quebec
Mother Birth Place: Ontario
Racial or Tribal Origin: French
Province or Territory: Ontario
District: London
District Number: 101
Sub-district: Ward 4
Sub-District Number: 50
City, Town or Village: London
Street or Township: 585 Colborne St <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Municipality: Ward Iv
Occupation: Wholesale Merchant
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Masuret 45
Marjorie Masuret 34

I've pm'ed this 1921 image to Karen (1921_071-e002942537.jpg)

Doesn't look at all helpful.


Mybe his sis is a daur of his adoptive family - I gave the 1911 URL earlier.

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON GREY (South/Sud) (#66)
Subdistrict: Normanby G-1 Page 16
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-6470
50 165 Culliton Maurice M Head S Apr 7 1866 35
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000065905.pdf
Sched 2: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000065888.pdf
[P16 L50 addy=Lot 18 Con 8]

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSZK-F1R [with image link]
Name Maurice Culliton
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 16 Feb 1909
Event Place Ayton, Grey, Ontario, Canada
Gender Male
Age 37
Birth Year (Estimated) 1872
Father's Name James Culliton
Mother's Name Catherine Doyle
Spouse's Name Mary Gilmartin
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 33
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1876

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON GREY (South/Sud) (#66)
Subdistrict: Normanby G-1 Page 17
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-6470
35 172 Rowan Mary A F Head W Apr 24 1861 39
36 172 O'Donnell May F Adopted Daughter S May 13 1889 11
37 172 Culliton James M Father W Jan 1831 70
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000065906.pdf
Sched 2: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z002/pdf/z000065888.pdf [as above]
[P17 L35 addy=Lot 17 Con 8]

That must be his dad on the adjacent lot.
It's interesting that Maurice's sis also adopted someone


1921 Census of Canada
Name: Maurice Culliton
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 55
Birth Year: abt 1866
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father Birth Place: Ireland
Mother Birth Place: Ireland
Racial or Tribal Origin: Irish
Province or Territory: Ontario
District: Grey South East
District Number: 84
Sub-district: Normanby (Township)
Sub-District Number: 34, 37, 38
City, Town or Village: Normanby
Street or Township: Lot - 18 Con 8
Municipality: Normanby
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Maurice Culliton 55
Kathleen Culliton 11
Annie Culliton 9
James Culliton 7
John Culliton 5
Joseph Culliton 2

I've pm'ed this image to Karen, too (1921_060-e002928420.jpg)

So, I've no idea who this "sister" is, unless he also went to another family, but you'' need his adoptive agency's file to see if that happened.

-----------------------

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JKFX-D5S [with image link]
Name Vernon Trevelyn
Event Type Death
Event Date 06 Jul 1935
Event Place London, , Ontario
Gender M
Age 37
Birth Year (Estimated) 1898

At no. 585 Colborne Street in 1921, there's a couple named Masuret - Albert and Marjorie.

In 1911 and 1921 there's a family of Harpers at 483 Colborne Street - but not at 585 - and no Marion.


Frederick Harper
in the 1921 Census of Canada
Name: Frederick Harper
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 57
Birth Year: abt 1864
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Kathleen Harper
Father Birth Place: England
Mother Birth Place: England
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Ontario
District: London
District Number: 101
Sub-district: Ward 4
Sub-District Number: 43
City, Town or Village: London
Street or Township: 483 Colborne St
Municipality: Ward 4
Occupation: Barrister
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Harper 57
Kathleen Harper 42
Virginia Harper 19
Rodney Harper 17
Faber Harper 11


Kathlene Harper
in the 1911 Census of Canada
Name: Kathlene Harper
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Age: 35
Birth Date: Jan 1876
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Race or Tribe: English
Province: Ontario
District: London City
District Number: 94
Sub-district: 30
Sub-District Number: 30
Place of Habitation: 483 Colborn St
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick F Harper 49
Kathlene Harper 35
Virginia Harper 9
Rodney F Harper 7
Faber A Harper 1

mgnv
Thank you for all your research. I know where Mrs Murgatroyd lived (or nearly - as stable st no longer exists) She used to visit her son and grandchildren who lived in an area called Derker in the 1930s - very near to Shaw Rd/Bower st area.
It's interesting to see that Ernest was in touch with his mother - whatever caused the split up between his mother and father, landed all the children in different children's homes. They were still there by1911 census except for Ernest who had already been sent to Canada as a British Home Child. His Meadowcroft attestation papers state his father as next of kin.

I am now going to look for his "sister" Marian Harper. His sister Alice Meadowcroft leaves 3 Stable and emigrates to Ontario Canada in 1929 - so this can't be her (she marries George Pownall in Canada). I'm going to try and see if she's a real person!
Thanks again
Karen

All the CEF enlistees are listed at:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/search.aspx
The arrestation papers for 90% of them are there. This is where the service records will appear.

I've been tracking how far along they'd gotten with the service records quite closely, as I was waiting for my dad's Massie cousins' records - they were released a fortnight before Armistice Day.
I knew Charles's unit - it's on his CWGC record, but I wasn't sure of Joseph's unit, so I've recently gone thru the chore of downloading his unit's war diaries.
The Ozzie site is better, they bundle each month into a single download.

I certainly guessed (but didn't know) Ernest's b'day was 1st July.
The 1901 census has b'days listed, and one occasionally sees lies on enlistment, but alomost never in the b'day.
The biggest lie I've seen on enlistment was from a civilian foreman of a railroad track laying gang. He enlisted and did the same job.
However, he was in his late 70s when he enlisted (he was in his 80s at war's end, and was presented to the king).
He, of course, lied abt his age, knocking nearly 30y off (he also had to lie and say he had no previous military experience - well he could hardly admit he'd served as an infantryman in the US civil war when he's claiming to be born after the war ended).

*******************

On another topic, this is a modern pic taken near the junction of Shaw Rd & Bower St (2 streets associated with Mrs Murgatroyd on Vernon's attestation).

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/586761
The blurb says:
Subject Location SD 936 054 [100m precision]
[The blue grid lines on the inset map are 1km apart]

If I look up SD 936 054 at http://www.streetmap.co.uk/
it akes me to some URL and embedded in the URL is x=393650&y=405450
This is the old style coorinates of the arrow tip, viz 393650,405450.
A better lookup is SD 93580 05440 - this is at the junction of Shaw Rd & Bower and is less than 100m fron the stated location of the pic.
SD 93650 05450 is to 1 m precision, i.e., full precision - the last (or both) blanks can be omitted.
The advantage of the new coords is one can give coarser precion by simply dropping the last coord(s) in the first set and a matching number from the second set.
The disadvantage of the new coords is if one goes 7 km W to 400650,405450, then the SD changes to SE.
Alternatively, if I go 6 km S, to 393650,399450 then the SD changes to SJ.
Alternatively, if I go 95 km N, to 393650,500450 then the SD changes to NY - it's rather confusing.
(Most of Lancs is SD - only the S incl Manchester, Liverpool is SJ.)

----------------

lan-opc says
St Mary, Shaw Street, Oldham, OL1 3EZ
St Mary is located at OS Grid Reference - SD 928055
Founded: 1829

This looks to be the RC church that is nearest Mrs Murgatroyd

You can look that up SD 928055 too.

Below is the last complete baptism for St Mary at lan-opc

Baptism: 23 Dec 1855 St Mary RC, Oldham, Lancs.
Ellen Slatery - [Child] of Matthew Slatery & Anne (formerly Flann)
Born: 15 Dec 1855
God Parents: Patrick Kenny; Catherine Kenny
Parents' Marital Status: conj.
Baptised by: Peter Cardinael
Register: Baptisms 1852 - 1855, Page 44
Source: Original Register at LRO Preston

followed by transcriptions of 15 baptisms 23/12/55-31/12/55 which all state:
"Notes: [final page missing from the register so information is incomplete]"

One point was to give some idea of the content, but a key point is the Original rego was held at the LRO in Preston

One could also check the Oldham archives, if this is nearer for you

http://calmview.oldham.gov.uk/calmview/

Ref No L727
Class RK:GO
Title Oldham Roman Catholic Parish Registers
Access Status Open
Repository Oldham Local Studies and Archives

http://www.oldham.gov.uk/info/200537/contact_local_studies_and_archives

Thank you mgnv, I haven't seen the attestation papers for Treveleyn, so this was really interesting.
I'm not reading anything about the battalion until I know he actually goes and serves. He might be considered unfit a second time... I shall just have to wait impatiently until his service records appear!
By the way his real birthday IS 1st July - he never lies about that - just the year!

Regards
Karen

Name: TREVELEYN, VERNON
MEADOWCROFT, VERNON (AKA)
Regimental Number: 410642
Date of Birth: 01/07/1894
Reference:RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 9781 - 27
Item Number:280100
Record Group:Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF)

His attestation papers
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=img&app=CEF&id=641056a
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=img&app=CEF&id=641056b

Re the first set of srvice records, viz:
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B6085-S003
I think they only came on line this week, so his second ser will not be online until abt 3m from now.
On page 7 of these records, it says he was SOS (struck off strength) on 26/4/1918 - Reason Phys Unfit
NB page 11 gives date as 26/4/1915, which makes more sense as his next attestation was 3/5/1915.
Again he lies about his age, adding an extra year to his last lie, but still has b'day of 1st July and 1911 said he was born July 1898.
[1st July is Canada Day, the day Canada became a semi-autonomous country. It's a public holiday now, but I don't know when that became a big deal.]

The 38th bn was one of 4 bn's in the 12th inf bde, one of 3 inf bde's in the 4th can Div
You can go to:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/02015202_e.html
and search for 38th battalion and get a page of links to the pages of the 38th bn's war diary.
You can download and save those pages to see what his unit was doing day by day.
There's just over 500 pages of jpg's, each with an average size of abt 120KB.

Author: Nicholson, G.W.L
Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War: Candian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919
This is free online via:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/docs/CEF_e.pdf


Title:Veterans Death Cards: First World War
First Name in series:Tommas, W
Mikan number:46114
Volume Number:tommas_w
Number of pages:1340
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/006003/dc-fww/tommas_w/pdf/tommas_w_0623.pdf

Yes Malyon, this is my Ernest. I couldn't find any trace of him beyond this 1911 census and his subsequent discharge from the army in 1915.
I think I'm on to him now - see my comments above and ArgylGran's contribution.
Thanks - Karen

this ernest

COPY PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Attach to Family Tree

Ernst Meadowcroft
Canada Census, 1911
Name
Ernst Meadowcroft
Event Type
Census
Event Date
1911
Event Place
Grey South Sub-Districts 1-38, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Age (Estimated)
13
Marital Status
Single
Relationship to Head of Household
Adopted son
Birth Date
Jul 1898
Birthplace
England
Household
Role
Gender
Age
Birthplace
Maurice Culliton
Head
M
41
Ontario
Mary Culliton
Wife
F
35
Ontario
Mary K Culliton
Daughter
F
1
Ontario
Ernst Meadowcroft
Adopted son
M
13
England

That's very interesting ArgylGran. Looks like this is him. His mother married a Murgatroyd after some sort of devastating split in the family - And of course his sister Alice did live in London Ontario.

Found a death certificate for Vernon Trevelyn alias Meadowcroft 7th July 1935 in Westminster hospital London Ontario giving his birth as Lancs and date of birth 1 July 1898 - same as my Ernest!
I got it as a fluke through Ancestry CA. Have downloaded as PDF - can be seen on my ancestry tree.

Aha! The person who inspected and approved his attestation was Lieut. Colonel of the 38th Batt. CEF.

As on the cemetery record you found, Karen.

Vernon Trevelyan ??
How interesting! Maybe he was afraid the army wouldn't have him in view of his previous discharge?


Don't know if relevant or not, but this Vernon below had a mother, Mrs Murgatroyd, who lived at 3 Stable Road, off Bower Road, Shaw Road, Oldham, England.

And a sister in London, Ontario.


Vernon Treveleyn
in the Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918
Name:Vernon Treveleyn
Birth Date:1 Jul 1894
Birth Location:Los Angeles, Cal, United States of America
Relative:Mrs Marian Harper , 585 Colborne Street, London , Ontario
Relationship:Sister
Regiment Number:410642

PS thanks for the advice Argylgran

Have just found this
geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1869498?PHPSESSID=4c9391f4bc92047887b2225489154ef7

There is a grave in St Peter's Cemetery, Section: E
806 Victoria St , London, London Township
Middlesex County, ON
Its states Ernest Meadowcroft died in 1935 and that he served as Vernon Trevelyan in WWI 38th Batt CEF.
Not sure if this is him - but the location is correct.

I'm trying to find out what happened to my great uncle Ernest/Earnest Meadowcroft b Oldham 1898. I have all his relevant British documents up to 1910 when he was sent to Canada as a British Home Child. I have all the documentation of his departure and arrival - his birth date is given as 1895. I also have his WWI military papers - he signed up when he was only 16 (gave the false birth date of 1895) He was discharged from the army only 4 months later reason given as "KR&O 322-2-e (e) Soldier of local battalion abroad considered unlikely to become efficient"
His address was London Ontario.
I think he may have survived beyond 1929 - as his sister Alice Meadowcroft emigrated to Ontario in this year ( she married George Pownall)
I haven't got access to world records. Can anyone help to find out what happened to him?
Thanks
Karen

KevinL Thank you so much for the info about the Facebook site. I'm going to post something tonight.
The ancestry tree could possibly be mine. I knew that Alice had gone to Canada. I didn't know that Ernest had been sent there.

I'm interested that my mum remembers a "cousin" from Canada visiting her during the war. He came to her school in his uniform, which caused excitement! My mum would have only been 4 in 1939 so it must have been later on. I'm interested that the "cousin" was old enough to be in the army - this means they couldn't have been any of Alice's boys. So I'm wondering who it could have been!

Thanks again to all who have helped xxx

He is on the British home children to Canada Listing
Library and Archives Canada

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/home-children-1869-1930/immigration-records/Pages/search.aspx

Item: Ernest MEADOWCROFT (73131)
Given Name(s): Ernest
Surname: MEADOWCROFT
Gender: M
Age: 15
Year of Arrival: 1910
Ship: CORSICAN
Date of Departure: 1910-10-06
Port of Departure: Liverpool
Date of Arrival: 1910-10-15
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Party: Roman Catholic Children
Destination: Ottawa, Ontario
Children travelling together: Q10BN
Notes: The child's age was illegible, difficult to decipher or not given
Type of Records: Passenger Lists
Microfilm Reel Number: T-4773
Reference: RG 76 C1a
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Database Item Number: 73131

There is a Facbook page:
"British Home Children Advocacy & Research Association"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Britishhomechildren/

You should look at join the group, put in a request and see if they can help.
There is a lot of valuable information and a very helpful site, or I can post it for you.

There is a tree in Ancestry, not sure how accurate it is?
it has
George Meadowcroft 1864-1927
Mary Alice Fitton 1873-1934

Ernest 1899-?
Walter 1901-?
Alice 1903-1993 (dide 17b oct 1976 Ontario Canada) m George Lisle Pownall (1903-1993) with 3 children
Joan 1934-1975
Ronald
Leonard

Not a new find - but gives image URL:

Ship:CORSICAN
Shipping Line:Allan Line Steamship Co.
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Date of Departure: 1910-10-06
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Que. Montreal, Que.
Date of Arrival: 1910-10-15 1910-10
Year:1910
Microfilm Reel Number:T-4773
Reference:RG 76
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e143/e003567196.jpg

Re Firbank, Royton, where Walter was in 1911:

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Oldham/

(Scroll down to "Scattered Homes".)
Comparing the map shown there, with Firbank Road on Google Maps, it seems the Homes took up the full length of Firbank Road.

I can't see any mention of a workhouse for adults there, nor of a Firbank Avenue in any context - only Firbank Road.


Looking at the image of the 1911 on Ancestry, on pages 2 & 3 it gives the address as :

Central Home of Scattered Homes of Oldham Union,
Firbank, Royton.

You can get many Canadian records thru LAC:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/genealogy/Pages/introduction.aspx

However, their census uses Ancestry's transcription, so if you can't find him in 1911, then you have to do a free searrch on Ancestry. If you've no sub, you'll just get:

Name Parent or spouse names Home in 1911(Sub-District, District, Province) Birth Year Birth Place Relation
Ernst Meadowercht 21 - Normanby, Grey South, Ontario 1898 England Adopted Son

But now you can look this upand get:
Surname: Meadowerch
Given Name(s): Ernst
Age: 12
Province: Ontario
District Name: Grey South
Sub-District Name: Normanby
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001989224.pdf
[addy=Lot 18 Con 8 Normanby Twp, Grey]; b 7/1898; living with Maurice & Mary Culliton & daur, an Irish RC family]

You can look at concession maps for S Ontario at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/searchmapframes.php
in particular:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/Images/Maps/TownshipMaps/gre-m-normanby.jpg

This map shows a house on the lot, with the name "M Doyle" on lots 18 & 19'

Go to: https://www.google.ca/maps/ and look up Ayton.
We want to go 2km S and 1 km E on Conc RD 8, and lot 18 is on the left..

The original survey was done in chains (80 chns =1 mile) and the standard lot size in the W part of Normanby Twp was 20 chns x 50 chns (i.e.,, 100 acres)..

====================

Name: MEADOWCROFT, EARNEST
Regimental Number: A699
Date of Birth: 01/07/1895
Reference:RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 6085 - 3
Item Number:194326
Box 6085
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc010/488422a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc010/488422b.gif
[attested 18/1/1915]

We know he lied about his age - he was 16, claimed he was 19, and is showing as having an apparent age of 21.

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
MEADOWCROFT Ernest Oldham 8d 707

My experience is people don't lie abt their b'day, just fidge the y.o.b., so he was probly b 1/7/1898. I suspect he was discharged as underage - one would need to see his service record to know, and it's not online yet - my guess is it'll come online 4-5 m from now, so check again in late Nov.

We know from RR's 1911 that Walter is an inmate at some place on Fir Bank Royston.
I'm wondering if the addy for Ernest's n.o.k., viz 3 Firbank Av, is actually the street addy of the workhouse.