Find Ancestors

It's always best to check around before ordering certificates. Ancestry and Find My Past now have lots of images for marriages (not births & deaths) on-line. If you don't have access to Ancestry or FMP there are always people on here willing to look for you.

If you have to order certificates order them from the GRO:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

(couldn't quite make out surname of Harriet Gertrude who Elsie was 'Visitor' of, 1911, looks like Rems?)

Chris :)

I'll take a look in a moment, but just wanted to put this:

Your Grandmother's birth:
Births Mar 1907

OWEN Mary Elizabeth Grimsby 7a 597
-----------------------------------------------------

Possible birth for brother:
Births Dec 1911

Owen Charles W H B Watkins Grimsby 7a 1073

------------------------------------------

Perhaps the baby wasn't called David?? There are no matching Owen/ Watkin marriages in Grimsby, so it's a very good possible.

Ancestry has it transcribed as Remson

Could it be Kimson? Rs sometimes written same as Ks:

Marriage:
Name: Harriet Gertrude Allenby
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Spilsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 835
Records on Page:
Name
George William Tuplin
Harriet Gertrude Allenby
Rose Emma Gray
William Kimson

Perhaps Charles in 1939?

Owen Household (3 People) 2 Navigation Street , Wolverhampton C.B., Staffordshire, England

Charles William Owen 06 Sep 1911 Male Builders Labourer Single
Kate Hancock (Hancox) 27 Jun 1874 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
James V Roden 03 Apr 1906 Male Builders Plasterer Married

(could be!, probably not relating to Elsie, just trying to 'sort', lol)

Baptism
County Lincolnshire
Place Wainfleet All Saints
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 450
Baptism date 27 Nov 1904
Person forename William
Person abode Croft Marsh
Father forename William
Father surname KIMSON
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Harriet Gertrude


Baptism
County Lincolnshire
Place Wainfleet All Saints
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 1425
Baptism date 28 Jul 1881
Person forename Harriet Gertrude
Person abode Wainfleet
Father forename Robert
Father surname ALLENBY
Father occupation Fisherman
Mother forename Mary Elizabeth

http://www.freereg.org.uk/


(and her Death, 1969 Boston, with William 1939, no idea why down as Widow 1911 then!)

Chris :)

(and for your Birth find!)

Death
CHARLES WILLIAM H B
Last name OWEN
Gender Male
Birth day 6
Birth month 9
Birth year 1911
Death quarter 3
Death year 1974
District GRIMSBY
County Lincolnshire
Volume 7
Page 0430


Edits (lol, not William Kimson, he is with wife on 1911, Wainfleet!)

I don't see anything else to fit with it?!!

I'm not sure at this stage I can know for sure if there was a baby called David Owen born 1913. It's all wrapped up in mystery - it was never talked about in my family. Until now!
I have my grandmother Mary Elizabeth birth certificate with dob 1 Jan 1907 in Grimsby. There's been no mention of a baby Charles born 1911 so that's another puzzle to solve.
I do wonder what made Charles place a declaration in the Hull Daily Mail in 1900 stating he was not responsible for his wife Elsie's debts? It would seem to be some legal procedure perhaps ?
Also the orphanage Mary Elizabeth was taken to around 1913/14. I wonder if her mother Elsie died and maybe her dad went to war.
Another puzzle piece .
Thank you all :-)

(did post below earlier, if any help)

Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
Owen Elsie 40 Hull 9d 350

Chris :)

There is no David Owen born after September 1911 that has a mother's maiden name of Watkins.

If it was my family I'd purchase the Charles W H B Owen certificate as there is no marriage within that area that fits, yet we know that Charles was in Grimsby around that time, so the probability of Charles and Elsie being parents are good.

But, it's your family and this is just a suggestion.

Also, bearing in mind what you've been told it may be worth purchasing the death certificate suggested by Chris- without it, I think you will always be wondering. If it turns out to be correct, great, but if not, then you can look at other possibles. Sometimes children were told parents had died rather than tell them that parents were unable to look after them.

Thanks Chris for that info , I followed a link to Yorkshire BMD page and will order a copy of the death certificate. It's not clear how to do that though, I'll try again later

I think that'll be the next step : )

So excited !!

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

(if not, order from above £9.25 each)

Chris :)

Please let us know the results Elizabeth. Hope it solves a mystery!

Yes AustinQ I think I will take your advice thank you. I have few facts and only the memories of a little girl who it appear , lost her family age 7 and went to an orphanage. She could've forgotten some of the story or only overhead conversations. I'll share when I know : )

Update:
I now have the certs I ordered and have some answers!
Charles WHB Owen is the son of my great grandma Elsie Owen. However no fathers name is on the birth certificate ? Elsie was married to Charles Owen Snr.
Elsie died on 18 November 1913 of a pulmonary aorta? I think my Grandma Mary s memory of her mother dropping dead in front of her is a real possibility.
Also Charles Snr served in the Merchant Navy in WW1, Ive seen his medal card online.
Now I think this may be why his children were adopted out, he was a fisherman at sea, who would look after them now their mother was dead?
I now want to find a death certificate for Charles Snr dob July 1875
Thanks for all your help, I'll keep you posted

How do you know Charles was in Merchant Navy?...(haven't read all through, was it stated on a Cert. somewhere)

Chris :)

(relates to a Charles below!)

04 December 1915 - Fife Free Press, & Kirkcaldy Guardian - Kirkcaldy

A Heavy Sentence
At the Burgh Court on Tuesday Bailie Dempster imposed fine of £5 or thirty days, on Charles Owen, a Grimsby bargeman, who was charged with having stolen a cotton shirt from the shop in High Street occupied by Nisbet and Company. On 13th inst., and a gold cased lever watch, from the master's cabin of the steam tug 'Southern Cross', lying in the west dock on 27th inst. On evidence being led, he was found guilty and fined.

Yes it was ??

CH - Re: "How do you know Charles was in Merchant Navy?."

You posted details from his m.cert which said he was a fisherman.

(apologies there then, as said, hadn't read all through, thought might just be Fisherman, rather than Navy, so wondered if it was actually stated somewhere that Elizabeth had seen)

Chris :)

(now seen!)

Edits (the Marriage above posted by safc above is available on Find My Past, from image, occupation of Charles was Fisherman, Residence at Time, 70, Division Road, for Elsie, 1, Division Road. His Father, William Owen, occ. Gilder and Decorator. Her Father, William Watkins (Deceased) occ. Labourer. Witnesses, Walter Lamb, Eliza Ann Huggins) (as some already on posting above)

Thanks for updating us re the child's certificate- so a little mystery solved! As a father wasn't listed it's unlikely that Charles was the father. I'd presume that he and Elsie had split up before the 1911 census.
--------------------------------------

Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Thursday 05 September 1929

Charles Owen (54), fisherman, was sentenced at Grimsby yesterday to 3 months hard labour for stealing £29 from Arthur Schubert, at whose house he had lodged. Owen lost the money in gambling.
----------------------------

Possible death?

Name: Charles Owen
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jun 1931
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a Page: 726