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Thanks mgnv - something to ponder if it occurs again.

Yes Chris - perhaps they hid behind the sofa and pretended they'd moved.

Oh well - never mind. Thanks to eveyone who has contributed.

+++DetEcTive+++ - RE "Did find this on the 1911 summary books but can't work out how to check if its the right for Florence"

Well, if I had any subs, I could find her as:
First name(s) Last name Birth year Birth place Registration district Parish County
Cathrine Armienson 1856 Ripley Derbyshire Nottingham Nottingham Nottinghamshire
May Aldred 1903 — Nottingham Nottingham Nottinghamshire
Census reference RG14PN20498 RG78PN1228 RD430 SD1 ED9 SN35

Ancestry gives her forenamw as Catrine.

Now FMP gives 2 piece numbere
RF78/1228 refers to the summry books - a piece covered a subdistrict.
RG14/20498 refers to the forms that were (usually) filled out by the head of the h/h.
In 1911, each regular household schedule had a piece number that identified which Enumeration District (ED) it was.
(I've never looked up a vessel, and institutions each had their own ED, but were clumped together under one piece number.)

RG14 refers to the 1911 returns. Pre-1911, several EDs were clumped together under one piece number, and each subdistrict would have one or more piece numbers.
The class numbers for 1861 thru 1901 were RG9 thri RG13, and was HO107 for 1841 and 1851.
There was an organization behind 1841, but it's best thought of as chaotic. 1851 was organized like 1861, but with some kinks.

Now if I go to http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ and search for the class number and the subdistrict, i.e., rg14 Nottingham South West I get 25 hits.
There's a button at the bottom that lets me display 15, 30 or 60 hits at once, so I can do a find on the web page (e.g., type Ctrl f) and look for ED 9.
Clicking on the hit gets:
Reference: RG 14/20498
Description:
Registration Sub-District: Nottingham South-West
Civil Parish, Township or Place:Nottingham (part)
RD 430 RS 1 ED 9

If I were going to find the h/h reurn on Ancestry, I wouldn't need the piece number.
I could enter the elements you posted, viz:
Registration District Number: 430
Sub-registration district: Nottingham South West
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
in Ancestry's 1911 search form
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2352
and then searching for Armienson

(Actually, with piece numbers below 17986, Ancestry lets me add to the serach:
Household schedule number: 35
which gets me the whole h/h. Below 17986 translates to most of Smethwick and points south)

If I were to search on FMP, I get the 1911 search screen (via A-Z record sets, then type 1911 and pick the census), FMP's search screen lets me enter the piece # 20498 and search for Armienson.
FMP lets me look for other persons living in the h/h. The next coarsest step below piece number on FMP is rego district.

Well, you've got yourself a puzzler with that one Det., grief eh?, newspapers not helping with anything either, despite numerous spellings!...

Chris :)

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/006003/t-21944/jpg/31228_4363973-01140.jpg

(link to 1916 Canada Census, says Nurse, went 1914)

(incoming passenger. Ship 'Metagama')
Catherine Armienson
21 Jan 1920 St John, New Brunswick, Canada Liverpool, England

(Post Office, Ripley, Derbyshire. Midwife)

I've found the 1939 register entry as she married Walter Saxilby Coddington in 1915.

However, I didn't have the baptism, so thanks for that :-)

Baptism
County Nottinghamshire
Place Nottingham
Church name St Nicholas
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 25 Aug 1886
Birth date 17 Feb 1885
Person forename Florence
Person sex F
Person abode 4 Gad St Forest Rd
Father forename Henry
Father surname THACKER
Father occupation Fitter
Mother forename Charlotte

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

(can see above, not that it seems to help with DOB search 1939!)

I'm working downwards from this marriage

Henry Thacker
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Henry Thacker
Registration Year: 1884
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 455
Charlotte Stokes
Henry Thacker

Charlotte Stokes' mother was Sarah Lomas. Her father was James Lomas who is a 3 x grt grandfather. OH's direct line continues down via Sarah's sister, Jemima 1840. Unless its necessary, in recent years I've tried not to investigate 'marry-ins' apart from BMD but to concentrate on their life after marriage & offspring with the blood line relative.

Please don't worry about the Lomas and Thackers!

The primary request was where was Florence Thacker 1885 & her husband Robert Armienson 1887 ish during the 1911 census, with a subsidary one for details of Robert Armienson.
You seem to have proved that Robert was born a Walter which was dropped when his parents married. He may never have known about the original surname.

George's parents' marriage:


Ellen Dickinson
mentioned in the record of Thomas Thacker and Ellen Dickinson
Name Thomas Thacker
Spouse's Name Ellen Dickinson
Event Date 26 Dec 1821
Event Place Radford,Nottingham,England


I'm sure you have all of the above, and more - what do you want to know about the Thacker line, Det?

Henry's father George and family ??

George Thacker
in the 1841 England Census
Name: George Thacker
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Lenton
Hundred: Broxtow (South Division)
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Radford
Sub-registration district: Lenton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 858
Book: 6
Folio: 9
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Dickinson 65
Ellen Thacker 35
Ann Thacker 14
Ellen Thacker 10
George Thacker 7
Eliza Thacker 5
Mary Thacker 3


George isn't with the family in 1851:

Harriett Thacker
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Harriett Thacker
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Thacker
Mother's name: Ellen Thacker
Gender: Female
Where born: Lenton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 167
Piece: 2131
Folio: 326
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Thacker 53
Ellen Thacker 49
Ellen Thacker 19
Eliza Thacker 16
Mary Thacker 13
Harriett Thacker 9

So how much do you know about the Thacker line?

This looks like Florence - I expect you have all this below?:

Florence Thacker
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Florence Thacker
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Henry Thacker
Mother: Charlotte Thacker
Birth Place: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham
Ecclesiastical parish: New Radford
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Nottingham North West
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3181
Folio: 26
Page Number: 44
Household schedule number: 343
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Thacker 40 - Lace machinist
Charlotte Thacker 39 - Cardboard box maker
Florence Thacker 16 - ditto
Nellie Thacker 13 - ditto

All born Nottingham


Florence Thacker
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Florence Thacker
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Henry Thacker
Mother's name: Charlotte Thacker
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub registration district: Nottingham North West
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2690
Folio: 131
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Thacker 30
Charlotte Thacker 30
Florence Thacker 6
Helen Thacker 3
Richard Lomas 57 - lodger


Parents' marriage:

Henry Thacker
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Henry Thacker
Registration Year: 1884
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 455
Charlotte Stokes
Henry Thacker


Henry's father's birthplace varies from census to census.


Henry Thacker
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Henry Thacker
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: George Thacker
Mother: Louisa Thacker
Gender: Male
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham St Nicholas
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: 20 March St
Occupation: Lace Porter
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub registration district: Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3365
Folio: 30
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
George Thacker 47 - labourer, born Shardlow, Derbyshire
Louisa Thacker 44 - Nottingham
John Thacker 22
Henry Thacker 20
Thomas Thacker 14
George Thacker 8
Arthur Thacker 5
Elizabeth Thacker 16
Eliza J. Thacker 11
Ellen Thacker 10


Henry Thacker
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Henry Thacker
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's name: George Thacker
Mother's name: Louisa Thacker
Gender: Male
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 106
Piece: 3512
Folio: 81
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
George Thacker 37 - born Lenton, Notts
Louisa Thacker 35
Henry Thacker 10
Elizabeth Thacker 6
Eliza Thacker 1
Ellen Thacker 5
Thomas Thacker 4


Henry Hacker
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Henry Hacker
[Henry Thacker]
Age: 11/12
Estimated birth year: 1860
Relation: Son
Father's name: Gorge Hacker
Mother's name: Louisa Hacker
Gender: Male
Where born: St Mary Nottm, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 105
Piece: 2456
Folio: 82
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Gorge Hacker 35 - born St Mary Nottingham
Louisa Hacker 24
John Hacker 2
Henry Hacker 11/12


Henry Thacker
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Henry Thacker
Registration Year: 1860
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 222

Thank you for the additional information.
No. I don't have Florence's MC as she is a distantly removed cousin.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

(Catherine on above. Pine Street, as 1939, not 'Rifle')


http://bridgfordhistory.org/sources/1904%20Kelly.pdf

(1904, 267 Bright Street)


https://www.deceasedonline.com/

(in case any more on above, spelt different, lol)

Chris :)

(apologies!, Mary had added)

do you have florence's marriage cert for 1905?

I’ve no idea if they went to Canada, but Robert Sylvester was buried in Walton Park Cemetery with an address in Everton, Lancs. That was in Jul 1907.

Florence was definitely in Nottingham by Jun 1914 to conceive her daughter Edna May – double registered as Armienson and Coddington. She married Walter Coddington after her husband died.

Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was following down the Thacker line – Florence’s parents.

Thank you for kindly accessing the burial registers Greyghost. If Ellen is buried with other Armienson’s, they are obviously related.

With so many Thanker/Armienson offspring dying youngish, it does make you wonder if there was some genetic defect.

Catherine Armienson on the 1939 Register

1939 Register Transcription

Armienson Household (3 People) 27 Rifle Street , Nottingham C.B., Nottinghamshire, England
Attach to tree
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Catherine Armienson 25 Feb 1859 Female General Dealer Widowed 67 1
James Armienson 25 May 1857 Male Carter Married 67 2
Gertrude Armienson 16 Nov 1888 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 67 3

Ref: RG101/6183I/008/9 Letter Code: RMJB© Findmypast Ltd
Open a closed record Request a living person's record
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Catherine Armienson
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name Catherine Armienson
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1943
Registration District Nottingham
County Nottinghamshire
Event Place Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Age (available after 1866) 85
Birth Year (Estimated) 1858
Volume 7B
Page 321
Line Number 85

Catherine Armienson
Canada Census, 1916
Name Catherine Armienson
Event Type Census
Event Date 1916
Event Place Saskatchewan, Canada
Gender Female
Age 56
Marital Status Widowed
Ethnicity English
Relationship to Head of Household Self
Birthplace England
Birth Year (Estimated) 1860
Immigration Year 1914
Province Saskatchewan
District Number 29 Saskatoon
Sub-District Number 07
Page 40
Affiliate Film Number T-21944

did robert and florence go to canada ?? as can't find on 1911 census

Deaths Dec 1910 (>99%)
Armienson Robert 71 Nottingham 7b 145

Just for interest - Catherine ("married" for respectability) and son Thomas in 1881:

Catherine Walters
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Catherine Walters
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relationship to Head: Housekeeper
Gender: Female
Where born: Ripley, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Radford
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: 2 Duffins Row
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub registration district: Radford
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3342
Folio: 29
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Robinson 44
Catherine Walters 31 - housekeeper, married [?], Ripley
Thomas Walters 3 - Beeston



Catherine Walters
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Catherine Walters
Registration Year: 1850
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Belper
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 19
Page: 446

authority
Nottingham City Council
cemetery
Southern Cemetery (Wilford Hill), Nottingham
grave reference
H30/88

Sort By:

Results per page:
name/date of burial/date of death
Armienson, Gertrude10 August 1957 07 August 1957
Armienson, James03 January 1944 30 December 1943
Armienson, Catherine08 April 1943 04 April 1943
Armienson, Ellen16 December 1939 12 December 1939

James Armienson (Walters) may have married Gertrude in 1915, but they are together in 1911 with a daughter, so some of family still in Nottingham

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2 Simkins Buildings Clayton St Nottingham, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
James Armienson Head Single Male Carter For Coal 24 1887 Nottingham
Gertrude Swift Servant Single Female House Holder 22 1889 Nottingham
Edna Swift Armienson Daughter - Female - 0 1911 Nottingham

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SWIFT EDNA ARMIENSON 1910 Q2 7B 459
England & Wales births 1837-2006 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England