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Thanks for all your help

Dea and Londonbelle ..............

great research!!

I had found both those 1939 records last night, and had been working to try to prove they were the correct two, but couldn't get to the bottom of it. So I left it and didn't post them, knowing that someone would dig deep :-D

(thankyou for checking that out Dea)

Chris :)

That would make sense, Jacqueline

My nan had two children evacuated to Somerset this could be why she is on that register

It 'must' be connected somehow but not sure how yet and I, too, have to go shopping !!

These are them on 1939 but they don't look very wealthy?


Mackenzie Household (3 People) 25 Lonsdale Road , Kensington, London, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
John P Mackenzie 15 Sep 1889 Builder Labourer
Winifred M Mackenzie 29 Dec 1895 Laundress
1 closed record here........
John A Mackenzie 03 Mar 1927 At School
2 closed records here..........


Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Mackenzie John A Howes Kensington 1a 176 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1930 (>99%)
Mackenzie Constance M Howes Kensington 1a 194 Scan available - click to view
Births Sep 1934 (>99%)
Mackenzie Charles W Howes Kensington 1a 200 Scan available - click to view




????? only because at Napier Rd.?? but I don't think she is the one on 1939?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
58 Napier Road East Ham E, East Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
James Howes Head Married Male Conductor E Council 43 1868 Hertford Herts
Transcription
Annie Howes Wife Married Female - 44 1867 Boulogne
Transcription
Agnes Rose Howes Daughter Single Female Cable Tester Western Electric Co N Woolwich 20 1891 Hamstead
Transcription
Winnie Howes Daughter - Female School 12 1899 Holloway
Transcription
Beatrice Howes Daughter - Female School 10 1901 East Ham
Transcription
Lillian Howes Daughter - Female School 7 1904 East Ham



I think though that she is this one (re address on 1939??)


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
33 Lonsdale Road, Kensington, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Charles Howes Head Married Male Stone Mason 43 1868 Kensington London
Transcription
Kate Howes Wife Married Female Laundress 41 1870 Fulham London
Transcription
Minnie Howes Daughter Single Female Dom Servant 18 1893 -
Transcription
Winnie Howes Daughter Single Female - 15 1896 -
Transcription
Charles Howes Son - Male School 13 1898 -
Transcription
William Howes Son - Male School 11 1900 -
Transcription
Thomas Howes Son - Male School 8 1903 -
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Albert Howes Son - Male School 6 1905 -
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Kathleen Howes Daughter - Female - 4 1907 -
Transcription
Voilet Howes Daughter - Female - 4 1907 -
Transcription
Marie Howes Daughter - Female - 0 1911 -

Will come back to it later.

Dea x

(found below from google earlier, when looking at things Winifred, think relates somewhere!)

(apologies, as no time to 'sort' further, shopping trip awaits!)

Chris :)

William was born on September 6 1859, in Roadwater, Old Cleeve, Somerset, England. .... 1929, at birth place, to John Patrick Mackenzie and Winifred May Mackenzie (born Howes).

Marriages Dec 1920 (>99%)
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Howes Winifred M Mackenzie Kensington 1a 552
Mackenzie John P Howes Kensington 1a 552

How interesting, Dea!

This little bit about the WVS at that time might give an insight?


The Women's Voluntary Service (WVS) began in June 1938 to prepare women for civil defence work. By September 1939, the WVS had 336,000 members, increasing to 1 million members during the war.

One of the main tasks of the WVS was to recruit women for Air Raid Precautions services (ARP). They also ran field kitchens and rest centres for people made homeless by bombing; provided canteens at railway stations for soldiers and sailors; escorted children being evacuated; running clothing centres for those who had lost all their possessions; operating car pools once petrol rationing was introduced; helping people salvage their personal belongings from bombed-out houses; and doing domestic work in hospitals and clinics. The WVS was also the official 'sock darner' for the Army - darning 38,000 pairs a week for British and American soldiers!

The women who joined the WVS were those with domestic responsibilities, such as looking after children or relatives, who could not join the armed forces or the Land Army, or work in a factory. Only the organisers received any payment, everybody else gave their services free. The women of the WVS even had to buy their own uniform - a grey-green tweed suit, red jumper and felt hat.

Although some of the duties of the WVS may have seemed boring, the women carried out vital war work, helping Britain to run as normal. The work could be dangerous and some members of the WVS were killed on duty. The WVS is still in existence today and is known as the Women's Royal Voluntary Service (WRVS).

Dea x

Would you believe it ???????????????

Mrs. Bettles who was one of the other people in Somerset on 1939 census with Emma L Pugh was only one of their very close neighbour in 1939 !!!!! :-D

Mr. Pugh at No.10 and Mr. Bettles at No 2, Napier Rd.

Looked for a marriage for an Alice B to a Bettles:

Marriages Dec 1929 (>99%)
Bettles Dennis Rooksby Thrapston 3b 507 Scan available - click to view
Craven Albert S Richardson Thrapston 3b 507 Scan available - click to view
Richardson Mabel E Craven Thrapston 3b 507 Scan available - click to view
Rooksby Alice B Bettles Thrapston 3b 507 Scan available - click to view


Marriages Dec 1929 (>99%)
Bettles John Patch W. Ham 4a 69 Scan available - click to view
Englebright Rosina J Knock W. Ham 4a 69 Scan available - click to view
Knock Alexander Englebright W.Ham 4a 69 Scan available - click to view
Patch Alice B Bettles W.Ham 4a 69


Looked to match the birth date with either of those names:

Births Dec 1902 (>99%)
PATCH Alice Bessie W. Ham 4a 300



Found Mr. Bettles (minus wife) on 1939:

Bettles Household (1 Person) 2 Napier Road , East Ham C.B., Essex, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
John Bettles 08 Oct 1899 Plasterer Hw

I think that has to prove it is the Emma L we are looking for.?

I think that Mrs. MacKenzie, being a lady of some wealth and in the WVS was setting up some sort of children's refuge for evacuated children to go to.

And these ladies were either working there at the time or may have just been excorting children over to the home and stayed over?

Dea x

Yes, I agree re Marr Cert. Unfortunately, as you know, West Ham marriages are not on Ancestry or FMP!

Perhaps, some of the info above might ring a bell with Jacqueline.

Thanks Londonbelle - I hadn't noticed a baptism on here for her and have just read through again and still can't see one :-S

However, if she 'is' the one missing from home in 1939, at least we now have confirmation of her family.

That marriage cert is needed to confim the fathers.

Dea x

I was looking at that entry too...the birth date is the same as that on Baptism in Limehouse birth 28 May 1891 Bap 21 Jun 1891 Parents George Nathaniel & Clara Harris:; George's Occ Bath Attendant address 91 Pekin Street

There is an Emma L Pugh here who is married but away from family ??

MacKenzie Household (5 People) Old Cleeve House Old Cleeve , Williton R.D., Somerset, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Winifred M MacKenzie 09 Jul 1897 Householder Private Means - also noted as "Women's Voluntary Service, C...??" - Married !
Eliza Pugh 22 Feb 1902 Childrens Nurse
3 closed records here.......
John M Stubbs 06 Jun 1931 At School
Emma L Pugh 28 May 1891 Domestic Duties - Married.!!
1 closed record here.....
Alice B Bettles 12 Sep 1902 Domestic Duties - Married !
2 closed records here

Perhaps she was working away from home for Mrs. MacKenzie ??
Maybe something to do with the WVS ?

It seems a strange household with possibly several children (the closed records?) and 3 married women with no husbands and a 'children's nurse' ?

Dea x

In Sylvia's 03:38 Post she has a Bap for Charles in 1889 with a birth date of 12 Mar 1889

There is a 1939 Register for a Charles with a birth date of 12 Mar 1888 so thought I'd add the entry to the Thread

10 Napier Road, East Ham, Essex

Pugh Charles W 12 Mar 1888. Married Occ Maintenance Riding School
There are two closed entries but no sign of Emma Louisa

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1355003

Chris :)

(you state on above that you know he married in 1911, but do you already have the cert.?)

(below, Address for 1901, from other 'Thread')

safc Report 17 Sep 2015 13:58

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
43, Barking Road, East Ham, West Ham, Essex, England

(had you managed to find brother John 1911 also?)

I think it might help if you bought the marriage certificate for Charles William and Emma ............. that would tell you where he was living, and his occupation at the time of his marriage.

Charles William's father died in 1898

Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
Pugh Charles Joseph 28 W. Ham 4a 27

Note that Susan's second husband is GUTTRIDGE



Marriages Mar 1901 (>99%)
Guttridge William George S W. Ham 4a 124 S
Pugh Susan W. Ham 4a 124

Maddie posted Charles' baptism, but there is a little more information about his parents on the image of the Register

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Charles William John Pugh
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Aug 1889
Father's name: Charles Joseph Pugh
Mother's name: Susan Pugh
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born: March 12 1889
Address:- 29 Tomline Terrace
Father occupation:- Warehouseman


and out of interest, baptisms of Charles' sisters ....

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Susan Esther May Pugh
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1892
Father's name: Charles Joseph Pugh
Mother's name: Susan Pugh
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born:- Sept 13 1892
Address:- 103 Locksley Street
Father occupation:- Manager


London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Ivy Harriet Elizabeth Pugh
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 May 1894
Father's name: Charles Pugh
Mother's name: Susan Pugh
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Born:- Apr 30 1894
Address:- 11 Acton St
Father occupation:- Warehouseman


Information from 1891 Census .....................

Name Age
Charles J Pugh 21b.ca 1879, Limehouse, London, Warehouseman for Druggist (Chemist)
Susan Pugh 21 b.ca 1870, Limehouse
Charles W J Pugh 3 b.ca 1888, Limehouse

Address:- 108 Locksley Street