Find Ancestors

Your opening post says you have Doris on two marriage certificates- are you saying she married twice? Who was her second marriage to? When, where did she die?

Name: Frederick Wallace Sagar
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1900
Date of Registration: Dec 1971
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Oswestry
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 9a Page: 314

SAGAR, Frederick Wallace of 44 Brookfields, Woston Rhyn Oswestry, Salop died 21 November 1971 Administration, London 1 March.

Frederick W Sagar married Minnie Jones in Oswestry Shropshire 1956.

Minnie Sagar 1906-1963 probate 1964 to Frederick Wallace Sagar.

Doris Hayes or Sagar married Frank A Mullins in kent 1952 5b 81

Doris Mullins 13/12/1910 died Oxfordshire 2003.


So it looks like the birth 08b 311 West Derby could be correct?

Maryb.

Nice work Mary :)

Hi jude, my grandmother was Elizabeth Davis (Hughes) b 1920. Yes as children they were told that Doris was the Aunt but in later years it was found out (by my grans sister Ethel) that Doris was actually their sister and Ethel Lyon Hayes had her while young before she met and married Hugh.
But Doris was always in touch with her mother and family so I'm unsure who she thought of as her parents.
Hope that all makes sense! Lots of family rumours which would be nice to prove true or otherwise!

Yes Mary that has to be the correct birth...and it confirms she is one of the closed entries on the 1939 register.

Rebecca, the birth certificate will confirm it is Ethel who is her mother but I suspect no father will be named. Did she name anyone as father on her marriage certificates?

Jude

I don't have the certificates yet, think I need to order a few to get the answers but everyone has been so helpful in getting me this far. Could you explain what a closed record is? I'm somewhat of an amateur!

In the 1939 register anyone who is believed to have been alive in 1995 is closed (big black redaction through it). They will open it up if you can prove the person is deceased (or close it if the person is still alive)!

My mum, who died in 2012, and my dad, who died in 2016, were closed records. I have had them opened up by sending their death certificates. Conversely, one of my cousins who is 88 this year and my father-in-law who is 83 this year were both showing on the records so I have had them closed :-)

Jude

Thanks so much for your help Jude, there is so.much to learn but it's always good to learn new things! Sorry for your losses and thank you for explaining. :-)

Buying her birth certificate will almost certainly solve the problem for you.

I know of a similar situation ............ someone born in the 1940s who grew up believing someone was his aunt but then discovered in the 1960s that she was actually his half-sister, born in the 1920s, before his mother's later marriage.

It took some adjusting for him to accept the change in relationship, but they ended up living together until she died.

It was considered a "deep dark secret" by some members of the family and spoken of in whispers, other family members knew about it and spoke openly about amongst themselves!


It was not an unusual situation ............ grandparents raising a daughter's child as their own and thus "saving face", though I'm not sure how secret such an event would be amongst the neighbours!

Hi syviaincanada, yes I think it would have been quite shocking especially in 1911 but Doris seems to have been kept within the family in some way despite being born at the mother and baby home which it appears at the time to have been pretty much "forcing " young mothers to have their babies adopted as adoptive parents were seemingly donating £50 to the home for each adopted baby, quite an income at that time! Just need all my certificates now to confirm that we are on the right line!