Find Ancestors

You are right Austin Q I have just received her birth certificate 13th March 1862 at The Turn Hathern Dist Loughborough Leicester, father Thomas a Framework Knitter & mother Maria Lovett (says under it now the wife of Thomas Gretton)
Thank you everyone who has helped me during these past few weeks

The fact that Agnes Howe/ Howes is one of the witnesses would seem to confirm the information found (Clara's Grandmother married John Howe- daughter, Agnes born 1854).

Clara's parent's died when she was a small child- she may not have known her father's name.

I'm pretty certain the birth certificate will just give you information you already have- mother Maria (nee Lovett), father Thomas (framework knitter).

GRETTON, CLARA (Mother's maiden name: LOVETT)
GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 07A Page 123

I'll be surprised if it states differently- but I'd be interested to know if it does!

I have today ordered a Birth Certificate for a Clara Gretton born 1852 Loughborough, hoping this will give me her parents names.
Now I just have to wait 22 days before it gets to me

I have today received the Marriage Certificate for Clara Gretton to James Winterbotham.
16th January 1870 he is a Widower aged 26 years she is a 21 year old Spinster (Born 1849? I have her born 1852 at Hathern Leics )
Witness's Frederick Lowe & Agnes Howes
It is such a disappointment after waiting 22 days for it to arrive as it does not have a fathers name for Clara Gretton, it has James's father as John Winterbotham Cabinet maker.
Ellen

Thank you all for this information particularly Austin WELL DONE I know Deborah is going to be thrilled when I give her all of this great Information

I had Arthur on the 1901 Census with his wife Louisa Alvey but couldn't find him on the 1911 Census, she is with his half brother Louis Winterbotham, this family sure moved partners often.

Arthur Middleton in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Arthur Middleton
Birth Date: abt 1866
Date of Registration: Mar 1943
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Hinckley
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 63


Arthur Middleton in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Arthur Middleton
Death Date: 11 Feb 1943
Death Place: Leicestershire, Leicester, England
Probate Date: 1 Apr 1943
Registry: Llandudno

Of 3 Ashby Road, Hinkley, Leicestershire.

To Samuel Jennings.......retired hosiery hand..........Effects: £721 6s 3d

I wonder where Arthur is in 1911?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6 Shipstone Terrace Nottingham, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Louis Winterbotham Head Married Male Dyers Labourer Wool Mnfr 35 1876 Basford Notts Eng
Transcription
Louisa Winterbotham Wife Married Female Box Maker Lace Mnfr 36 1875 Leicester
Transcription
Ivy Winterbotham Daughter - Female - 7 1904 -


WINTERBOTHAM, IVY CLARA MMN ALVEY
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 443

No further children.

??

Ivy C Winterbottom on the 1939 Register

Household (1 Person) Aston Hall Aston-On-Trent , Shardlow R.D., Derbyshire, England

Ivy C Winterbottom Inmate 18 Mar 1903 Female Incapacitated Single 1 77

Althought the birth month states March.........you can't actually read what is written on the image...............Well i can't anyway!

As Arthur's occupation ia a "Barber" in 1939

Is this him in 1901

??

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, Emerald Street, Leicester, Leicestershire, England

Arthur Winterbottom Head Married Male 35 1866 Barber Nottinghamshire, England
Transcription
Louisa Winterbottom Wife Married Female 28 1873 Card Board Box Maker Leicester, Leicestershire, England


Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)
ALVEY Louisa Hinckley 7a 128
WINTERBOTHAM Arthur Hinckley 7a 128


Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
Alvey Louisa Leicester 7a 237

?? ArthurWinterbotham married Louisa Alvey Oct 1897
1901 2,Emerald street Leicestershire
Arthur Winterbotham
louisa @ 1873 Box maker.

1911 6,Shipton Street Hyson Green.
lois Winterbotham/ Winterbottom (Son of James + Clara)
louisa wife? of 17 years 1 child born a Box Maker born @ 1875
Ivy Clara daughter.1903 her mum nee Alvey

louis Winterbotham married Janet martin in 1893 they are together on 1901 census.

So it looks as though louis is with the wife of Arthur on 1911 census.No marriage found.

Maryb.

Well done !!

:-)

PH- I couldn't rest, Arthur was niggling me!

Now- it can't get much clearer than this! Arthur on the 1939 register- under Middleton & Winterbotham:

Middleton (Winterbottom) Household 3 Ashby Road , Hinckley U.D., Leicestershire, England

Arthur Middleton (Winterbottom) 11 Aug 1865 Male Barber Married

(tries to keep up, lol)

Below might relate in...

Chris :)

Baptism
County Nottinghamshire
Place Radford
Church name Christ Church
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 25 Sep 1853
Person forename Henry William
Person sex M
Person abode New Radford
Father forename William
Father surname SPIBY
Father occupation Engineer
Mother forename Sarah Emma


Baptism
County Nottinghamshire
Place Radford
Church name Christ Church
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 28 Mar 1875
Person forename Albert William
Person sex M
Person abode 32 Denman St
Father forename Henry William
Father surname SPIBEY
Father occupation Greengrocer
Mother forename Jane

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


SPIBY, ALBERT WILLIAM (JOHNSON)
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in RADFORD Volume 07B Page 218


Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Johnson Jane Radford 7b 334
SPIBEY Henry William Radford 7b 334


Deaths Dec 1914 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Spiby Henry W 61 Nottingham 7b 432


Marriages Sep 1850 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Roberts Sarah Emma Radford 15 888
Spibey William Radford 15 888

Wow Austin you had certainly given me some new news ,yes Arthur was born 1866 I assumed he was born to James & Clara before they married.

Clara Emma was born to a Harry ( Henry ) Spilby it states on her marriage certificate Harry Spilby Winterbotham as her father to Claude Harcourt Clements.

A 2nd cousin & I are researching together this Winterbotham family, her father ( Clara's son ) told her Clara Emma was deeply ashamed her whole life that she was illegitimate
Thank you heaps
Ellen

Austin is on a roll!!

:-D

By 1891 Clara and James had separated :

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Shipstone Street, Radford, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Clara Winterbottom Head Married Female 38 1853 Grocer Hathern, Leicestershire,
Louis Winterbottom Son Single Male 16 1875 Dyers Labourer New Basford, Nottinghamshire,
George Winterbottom Son Single Male 13 1878 - New Basford, Nottinghamshire,
Clara E Winterbottom Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Nottinghamshire,
---------------------------------------

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Great Alfred Street, St Mary, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

George Clarke Head Married Male 58 1833 Shoe Maker Nottingham
Elizth Clarke Wife Married Female 42 1849 - Uppingham
Florence M Clarke Daughter - Female 15 1876 Lace Mender Nottingham
Elizth E Clarke Daughter - Female 13 1878 Errand Girl Nottingham
Jas Winterbottam Boarder Married Male 48 1843 Framework Knitter Nottingham
Arther Winterbottam Boarder Single Male 24 1867 Framework Knitter Nottingham
Elizth Naden Lodger Widow Female 60 1831 Hosiery Finisher Nottingham
------------------------------------------

So Clara's youngest child was not James' daughter. In your opening post you said her father was Spilby- but looking at her birth reg I think her father's surname was Spyby (or Spibey- several spellings).

WINTERBOTHAM, CLARA EMMA SPYBY mmn:GRETTON
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 291

When Clara Emma marries she lists her father as Harry Spiby/Spilby Winterbotham, bookeeper.

Possibly this man? (I don't see him in 1891)

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
24, Independent Street, Radford, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Henry W Spiby Head Married Male 27 1854 Brewers Clerk Radford, Nottinghamshire
Jane Spiby Wife Married Female 37 1844 - Scotland
Martha Baker Daughter In Law Married Female 17 1864 Colliers Wife Nottingham, Nottinghamshire,
William Spiby Son Single Male 1 1880 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
Albert Spiby Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Nottingham, Nottinghamshire,
------------------------------------------------------------

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14, North Sherwood Street Street Albans Terrace, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire,

Emma Wise Head Widow Female 65 1836 - Nottinghamshire, England
Harry Wise Son Single Male 47 1854 Commercial Clerk Nottinghamshire,
Harry Spibey Boarder Single Male 46 1855 Barman Nottinghamshire,
Ann Wise Daughter Single Female 44 1857 - Nottinghamshire,
Charles Wise Son Single Male 43 1858 Cordwainer Nottinghamshire,
Betsy Wise Daughter Single Female 38 1863 Lace Mender Nottinghamshire,
Albert Wise Son Single Male 31 1870 Plumber Nottinghamshire
Florence Wise Grand Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Nottinghamshire,
Hilda Wise Grand Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Nottinghamshire,

and just to confirm- here is Ann Middleton with son, James, and husband to be John Winterbotham in 1841.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Church Gate, Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

William Partridge Male 60 1781 -
Martha Partridge Female 60 1781 Leicestershire, England
John Winterbottom Male 20 1821 Leicestershire, England
Ann Middleton Female 20 1821 Leicestershire, England
James Middleton Male 4 months 1841 Leicestershire, England

Just back- had another look.

I believe James Winterbotham was born James Middleton- the illegitimate child of Ann Middleton. Shortly after James was born Ann married John Winterbotham.

James Middleton/ Winterbotham married Jane Brewin in 1865. He lists his father as John Middleton, occ Joiner. His step dad, John Winterbotham was listed as a joiner on the 1871.

James and Jane had two sons, Arthur (b1865) and John (b1868). Jane died in 1968.

James then reverts to using Winterbotham for his surname- as does his son Arthur. James then marries Clara Gretton in 1870.

I cannot see what happened to son John. (Will try and search for him later)

I have to go out- but wanted to put this up. I'll check it out later.

What if James Winterbotham was previously married under the name Middleton:

Marriage:
name(s) James Middleton (Framework Knitter)
Age 24
Birth year 1841
Residence Cherry Orchard, Loughborough
Father's name(s) John Middleton (Joiner)
Marriage year 1865
Marriage date 12 Mar 1865
Spouse's name(s) Jane Brewin
Spouse's age 19
Spouse's residence Loughborough
Spouse's father's name(s) William Brewin
Denomination Anglican
Place Loughborough, Emmanuel
County Leicestershire
-------------------------------------------------------

(Is this Arthur Winterbotham??)- EDIT: It appears it is!
MIDDLETON, ARTHUR mmn: BREWIN
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 122

MIDDLETON, JOHN mmn: BREWIN
GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 134
-----------------------------------------------

And possible death for Jane:
name(s) JANE MIDDLETON
Gender Female
Birth year 1845
Age 23
Death quarter 2
Death year 1868
District Basford
County Nottinghamshire
Volume 7B Page 74

I'm not sure how they transcribed that 1841 census- some of the pages for Hathern are virtually blank they're that faded.

I couldn't see anything more in 1841 than you found Dea.

Just backtracking slightly- Ellen said in the opening post that Clara had son, Arthur Winterbotham, born 1866. I questioned this as Clara was born in 1852 and didn't marry until 1870. Plus I don't see a birth for him.

In 1871 Clara and James are living alone, and Arthur is here with Grandparents (In 1881 Arthur is listed as the son of James & Clara):

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cobden Street, Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

John Winterbotham Head - Male 52 1819 - Leicestershire, England
Ann Winterbotham Wife - Female 58 1813 - Derbyshire, England
Charlotte Winterbotham Daughter - Female 23 1848 - Leicestershire, England
Mary Winterbotham Daughter - Female 21 1850 - Leicestershire, England
Elizabeth Winterbotham Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Leicestershire, England
Minnie Winterbotham Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Leicestershire, England
Arthur Winterbotham Grandson - Male 5 1866 - Nottinghamshire,
--------------------------------------

This creates more confusion as some of the children of John and Ann have mother's maiden name Middleton- but I don't see a birth for James (that married Clara Gretton). However, I have found James with a Middleton family in 1851:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Pinfold Gate, Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

William Middleton Head Married Male 55 1796 Farmers Labourer Packington, Derbyshire
Elizabeth Middleton Wife Married Female 55 1796 - Ashover, Derbyshire,
Henry Middleton Son - Male 14 1837 Scholar Loughborough, Leicestershire
James Winterbottam Visitor - Male 10 1841 Scholar Loughborough, Leicestershire,
--------------------------------------------------

I know Ellen didn't ask for the information but I was curious and confused!

Who are Arthur's parents? If James is his father- was James married before?

Who are James' parents?

And where are their births?