General Chat

I am sick of reading ill informed comments regarding the strike, teachers, their working life & the pupils & their personal difficulties they have within school.

Firstly it's not easy to get a child statemented for a condition. It can take months or years of a child struggling to get the extra help/funding to support that child, even in quite obvious cases! And children are accessed over time, in different situations so it's nigh on impossible for a parent to constantly feed a child E numbers all the time to provoke a reaction. A parent would have to be pretty thick to do this as the induced behavior would cause havoc at home too.

Added to that once a child has that statement they are not forgotten or pushed aside as problem solved, they have continuing support for their needs.

Regarding holidays

Teachers are paid on a pro rata basis, just as us other workers in a school do. That means, our yearly salary is divided over 12 months, so we get full pay during school holidays. That is why I may get more holiday pay than some of my work colleagues & some get more. It is dependant on how long we have worked there.That is added to our basic pay & divided. Yes holidays are long, but at least two weeks out of summer teachers are working from home, or in school updating rooms, planning etc. Shorter holidays I've known teacher friends spending most of that time planning, marking, entering data...the list goes on. Based on that fact, and it is fact as teachers HAVE to do these extra things as per contract AND would face the loss of their job if they fail to do so, that shortens the their holidays by at least 3 weeks, possibly more during the year.
Added to that the UNPAID extra hours teachers do each school day, starting at 7am onwards, finishing at 5-6pm...marking, data etc. Meetings after school, 1-2 a week or more which they don't get paid for as its expected they attend as part of their contract. Not forgetting after school clubs, special events such as concerts, parent teacher consultations, parents evening...all unpaid, although odd things are offered as lieu time.Then they go home often to mark the days work.

In conclusion, teachers deserve their holidays, they have worked with dedication to bring an education to our children often at the expense of their own family life.

INSET days

Get a grip, teachers are not on a jolly, they are updating their own teaching practices/polices, New methods of learning, safeguarding/abuse training.. To give your child the best updated education they can.
Interestingly enough, there are so many legal days children must be educated in school & these are NOT compromised by INSET days. The INSET days are added days to your childs holiday with the exception that the school can choose when they can/are able to take them. Hence same days are tagged at the beginning of term or the end.

It's not the dark age, school life was different back in the day. What worked then will not work now. Teachers have been set unrealistic goals for their pupils to achieve, and those goalposts are moving all the time. The government in turn, are putting more pressure on our children to achieve these goals earlier and earlier. Stealing their childhood is one thought.
They want to lengthen school hours, that means longer working hours for teachers who do actually work those hours doing marking etc,so then they will be going home to do more work before falling into bed at midnight.
That then takes your time with your child away. Younger kids will be home, dinner bath, bed. Although I suspect some parents will applaud the fact they have longer free child care.

For the hours the teachers actually work, including their own free time which isn't really free, the pay is p*ss poor. And to find out the pension which you have worked for is also going to be cut/reduced its no wonder that teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

I would suggest that ill informed blinkered people, who think teachers have it easy to do some voluntary work in a school. My eyes were opened when I started helping in school around 10 years ago. They opened wider when I started working in the school, and now working full time & often staying later myself & attending diary meetings my eyes are agoggle at the dedication, hard work & effort our teachers put into their work & our children. And the constant government goal moving,backlashing & spiteful tongues of parents & the general public who look in & see a 9-5 cushy job with lots of holidays. :-P

I agree with you Mildred, particularly the last paragraph. I am a voluntary reading mentor in a local junior school and have an insight to some of the issues facing the teaching profession today.

Totally agree with Mildred, couldn't have put it better myself.

M.

At last, someone with a bit of sense based on fact rather than plucking wild statements out of the ether!

Well said, Mildred.

So many ignorant people (like Gove) knock teachers when they have no idea of the job they do or the efforts they put in.

It was my chosen career and I never had any regrets, most parents were grateful for what we did. The others - well - one can only hope their children don't end up as bitter and ignorant as they did.

I SPENT SEVEN YEARS AS VOLUNTARY HELPER IN A CLASS OF TWELVE
CHILDREN WHO DISRUPTED CLASSES.
,THIS WAS WAY BEFORE ANY TESTS FOR LEARNING DIFFICULTIES.
I TOOK; THEM FOR ARTS AND CRAFTS AND COOKING BUT WOULD INCORPORATE
MATHS OR ENGLISH,I WORKED EVERY DAY THE TEACHER ASKED ME
TO DO WHICH WAS NEARLY EVERY DAY.
THAT WAS FROM 1974,
EVEN NOW ONE OF THE BOYS STILL ASK MY SON HOW AM I BECAUSE
HE REMEMBERS DOING THE COOKING AND HES 45 YRS OLD

Teachers are not the only ones who work long hours in the call of duty ... but they make much more of a shin dig about it than anyone else. Neither are they the only ones not getting very good pay at basic grades in the public service. Unlike the army, police or nursing the NUT feels that going on strike will advance their cause.

Well I demur.

I taught maths and rugby (league) for a year in Manchester and have had a bunch of teachers in my family so I know perfectly well what the job is like. It is hard work for sure but not impossible. The pay was and is dreadful but if the teachers want better pay then they need to up their game. Far too many settle for mediocrity or worse and a pension.

For instance by and large teaching in England today has very little idea how to use information technology in teaching young people. Here and there it is brilliant but mostly it is horrid. Why is the profession so reluctant to follow best example preferring to ignore or denigrate ?

Too many kids in too many schools are bored out of their minds. That is not the fault of the parents.

Mr Gove has exactly the right objectives but not the solutions.

He realises that for > 2 generations now the English & Wales educational system has not delivered anywhere near enough young people with the levels of numeracy and literacy that the UK needs to survive in a tough world. A very large chunk of blame for that has to be taken by the teaching profession at all levels although it refuses to do so.

Mr Goves mish mash solutions of back-to-the-future learning by rote, "free" schools, pupil teachers, teaching assistants and payment-by-results have zero chance of meeting his objectives.

The NUT should focus on something better which it won't do by striking. Teachers are very fond of complaining that their job is made difficult by a lack of respect from parents and children. True but respect is earned not given.

:-|

I agree with everything Mildred has said. As a qualified nursery nurse and someone who has done part of the graduate teacher training programme (I left for health reasons) I am now working as a teaching assistant in a year 1 class. The class teacher is in school by 7.45am and doesn't leave until 6 pm each evening. She teaches, supports groups of children, does playground duty, runs after school clubs, takes afterschool booster classes, liaises with parents/carers etc.... She takes marking home and does most of the planning and preparation for lessons at home. Her records are updated, data collected, reports written and meetings are attended. She comes into school during the holidays to do various things.

I, as her TA, come into school early, run lunchtime clubs, prepare lesson and classroom resources, put up displays, ensure the physical class environment is clean, tidy, inviting and safe, work with individual, small and large groups of children during the school day, keep records, prepare the classroom for the following day. I also prepare class resources at home. I often come into school and help during the holidays.

I could go back and complete my teacher training - I loved teaching but I don't want all the hassle that goes with it. There is over work, a continually changing curriculum, an expectation to jump through hoops and a government who do not appreciate the integrity or the worth of the teaching profession. It is not just down to the present government either. Successive governments have fiddled with the curriculum and exams and bashed teachers. Scrutiny of schools by the powers that be is intrusive and demoralising and never supportive. Teacher moral is extremely low and now a jumped up little man wants to get rid of support staff in schools!

Standards of literacy and numeracy have risen in recent years, Rollo. More young people are going to university than ever before.

I have no idea where you are getting your information from but it's very out of date. By and large Information technology forms a large part of the curriculum - at least it does in these parts and I can't think that other LEAs are so far behind. It comes at a price and some LEAs and education ministers don't want to pay for it. It would be excellent if there was more but Mr Gove doesn't want to pay.

It's plain daft to say teachers ignore best practice - that's what Inset is for and why they go on courses in their free time. The ones I know aspire to best practice within the financial limitations imposed upon them. I'm sure there are some who don't but I haven't met any.

Children are in school for a very short time. The rest of their time is spent at home with their families who have a far greater influence on them than school. If parents are happy to let kids play on computers instead of reading books or going out somewhere interesting that's not the fault of teachers.

The biggest problem in the classroom today is the lack of discipline in a significant minority of children. Some have never been taught to sit down and listen. Children are starting school unable to use a knife and fork and wearing nappies because their feckless parents can't be bothered to teach them the basics.

There's an awful lot that teachers to try to make up for but they can't cancel out bad parenting, no matter how much they would like to.

Well said Gwynne x

Well said Errol, Mildred and Gwynne x

"Teachers are not the only ones who work long hours in the call of duty ... but they make much more of a shin dig about it than anyone else. Neither are they the only ones not getting very good pay at basic grades in the public service. Unlike the army, police or nursing the NUT feels that going on strike will advance their cause"

Rollo, it's true, other parts of the public sector are losing out too. That doesn't make it right either. I don't think they are making more of a shin dig than anyone else, it's just that they get more coverage and going on strike seems to make an impact on many people.

Rather than people pulling apart workers in the public sector whether it be teachers, nurses, civil servants, police etc, maybe we should be looking at the MPS who managed to get a decent pay rise unlike any of the other public sector workers.

It's very easy for the media to manipulate the country into pulling each other apart when working conditions and pay are deteriorating. Meanwhile we tend to overlook areas that we should be focusing on.

Many of the banks who seemed to get us into this mess seem to be getting ridiculous pay rises again (apart from RBS who had to be vetoed by the government - not that they vetoed other banks that we have a share in!).

There was a time not so long ago that only the privileged few extended their education beyond the basic 'O' & 'A' levels.

But now we've moved into a world where academic ability appears to be the only option and the formal learning curve can comfortably be stretched out into students' late twenties.

I left school with no qualifications - my parents didn't have the money for me to stay on at school or go to university, I had to go out to work. In later life I trained as a nursery nurse when my children were at junior school. After that I got a job and worked full time in a school and brought up my family whilst perusing my university degree part time, it took me 5 years, and then to being accepted onto the graduate teaching programme (in school teacher training) in my 40's. I was lucky to have the chance to do so but I worked damned hard to do it.

SRS 007 1/2 totally agree.

Some very interesting points indeed.

As for more going to university, well, don't get me started on that one!!!

There was a programme on BBC Radio 4 @ 5pm this afternoon under the general heading: 'Teachers vs. Government - 70 years of education policy'.

pity nurses are not able to strike - now they do get a rough deal these days, but how could they strike?

Why can't nurses strike?

I thought that only last month they were talking about it - as widely reported at the time !

However, that is not what this thread is about.

After a quick head count, I realised that my extended family includes 5 school teachers.

So, in the midst of some diverse interpretations & conflicting opinions on this thread, I'm learning slowly but surely that sometimes my own opinion is best kept to myself.

Dermot - be thankful that you have the numeracy skills to be able to perform a head count !

Secret Red Squiggle (sorry, that always goes through my head every time I see you post - no malice intended) - I agree with what you say. Typical diversion tactics.