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Lynn- you've made the same mistake again! You need to read through the thread at the information that's been given...

The Fred & Maud at 36 Sussex Road aren't the correct people

Hallo again!

I've managed to discover quite a bit more about Maud:

Date of birth: 27 April 1902 to Albert and Eliza Baitrum.
Marriage: 1925 to Fredk H C Garner
Child of that marriage: Helen Louise Garner 1926

Maud then met Joseph Andrew Charles Bickley circa 1930
Children: Joseph Bickley 1931 (also registered as Joseph Garner), Charles Bickley 1934
Date of death: 29 May 1942 in St Leonard's Hospital, Shoreditch.

I cannot find a marriage for Maud and Joseph but he is recorded as her husband on her death certificate.

Electoral Rolls: 1929-1933 Maud is registered as living with Fredk Garner at 36 Sussex Road, Harrow on the Hill.

1931 - 1939 she is also registered as living with Joseph Bickley at various addresses in Shoreditch.

Fredk Garner and Emma Cockram married in 1948 and he is recorded as a 'widower'. Both Fredk and Emma died in the last quarter of 1960 and probate was granted to their sons.

So, quite a complex life story for Maud. Has anyone any idea what happened to her sons, please? By the way, Joseph married Sarah Connard in 1944:she died in the 1960s, I think. He died in 1990.

Lynn

AustinQ

Thanks for your comment, duly noted.

It could be significant that Maud and Frederick's daughter, Helen, appeared to be living with her grandparents in 1939, so perhaps Maud left the family home between 1935 and 1939.

I'll update these notes as soon as I receive the certificates.

Lynn

Lynn if you read through the thread it was already suggested that the Fred at 36 Sussex Road was not the correct one and that this was likely to be your Fred:

1930 Electoral register
10 Orchard Road, Brentford & Chiswick
Charles Garner
Ellen Garner
Frederick Garner<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Louisa Hillier

Sorry Mary, I was still looking when you add more info to your post.

Lucy and William Garner are at 36 Sussex Road in 1918.

I think this is that family in 1911 - so the Frederick Charles with them on later ERs is their son?

Frederick Charles Garner
Age in 1911: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Walthamstow, Essex
Civil Parish: Walthamstow
Search Photos: Search for 'Walthamstow' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 59 Grosvenor Park Road, Walthamstow N E
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Insurance Clerk
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 15
Piece: 9690
Household Members:
Name Age
William Garner 59
Lucy Garner 58
Francis George Garner 28
Frederick Charles Garner 22
Walter John Garner 21
Percy Albert Garner 19

Frederick Charles Garner at 36 Sussex street in 1920 with a Lucy and William Garner
I don't think this is your Frederick who married Maud Baitrum .
Lucy and William were the parents of Fred Charles Garner born 1889 in Essex, they were at 36 Sussex Street 1918.
Maryb

Edit Fred C Garner born 23/7/1888 died 1970 Ormskirk Lancashire
He married Maud Bampton in Ormskirk Lancashire in June 1926
So we can now rule them out.

Thank you again everyone for all your comments. Thanks to Sylvia I now understand about the annotations in the 1939 Register.

I have sent off for several birth and death certificates so I'll be able to update things when they arrive (early next week hopefully).

Meanwhile, I've been searching through the London Electoral Registers as follows:

Maud and Fred Garner lived at 36 Sussex Road, Harrow-on-the-Hill from 1929 - 1934. I can't find anything earlier or for 1935/36 for them.

From 1937 to at least 1960 (when he died), Fred and Emma lived at 40 Granville Avenue, Spelthorne, Feltham. On some of the returns she was registered as Eunice.

In 1950 Helen was living with them. In 1953, 1958 and 1960 one or both their sons were with them. Their first-born died in 1931 - shortly after birth.

I've found Fred's Will - he died on 6 Dec 1960 and was still living at Granville Avenue. Administration was granted to both his sons, but that doesn't mean Emma was dead by that time.

When Joseph Garner's and Joseph Bickley's birth certificates arrive I should be able to clarify who their mothers were.

I can find no trace of Maud after 1934: she may have died, divorced, remarried or simply changed her name. I'll keep looking and let you know if I discover anything.

Lynn

1945/6 19,Crondall Street
Benjamin Bickley
Elizabeth Bickley

Death Elizabeth Bickley born 11/5/1916 died Nov 1986 London City
V14 p 757.

Maryb.

1939


Baitrum Household (6 People)
49 Crondall Street , Shoreditch, London, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S)
Lizzie Bickley (Baitrum)
DOB 11 May 1914
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Laundry Hand
MARITAL STATUS Single
SCHEDULE 104
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 3
Charles Baitrum
Annie Baitrum
Charles Baitrum
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.


Not impossible but I think it's doubtful that Benjamin and Lizzie were the parents of Joseph B born 1931. They were both single in 1939 and living separately, so why wait until 1940 to marry?

Perhaps the birth certificate of that child is needed to verify his parents.

.
1936 34 Essex Street Maud and Joseph
1936 29,Essex Street is Benjamin Bickley

1939 34,Shenfield Street Maud and Joseph Bickley.
1939 29,Shenfield Street is Benjamin Bickley.

Maryb.

AustinQ

Yes it looks like them in 1930

See page 1 2 Apr 2016 17:52

Guessing Louisa has been spelt wrongly on one of the entries!

Could this be Fred Garner with his parents in 1930?:

1930 Electoral register
10 Orchard Road, Brentford & Chiswick
Charles Garner
Ellen Garner
Frederick Garner
Louisa Hillier

Which means that this isn't Fred Garner with Maud Baitrum

1930 Electoral Register
36 Sussex Road, Harrow
Frederick Charles Garner
Maud Garner

That seems most likely but Lynn has these as Fred Garner and Maud Baitrum:

1933 Electoral Register
36 Sussex Road, Harrow
Frederick Charles Garner
Maud Garner

But these can't be the correct couple if Maud was already living with Joseph Bickley.

Feel free to correct me but it seems as though Fred & Maud separated but most likely couldn't afford a divorce so went their own ways

Fred was only free to marry Emma after the death of his wife in 1942 (see Mary's post above)

What address is on Joseph's birth certificate (1931)?

A correction to Lynn's post :-

In 1931 Maud was registered at 47 Rushmore Road, Hackney as Bickley (living with Joseph -not Fred):

1931
47 Rushmore Road, Hackney
Joseph Bickley
Maud Bickley
Ada Ethel Hurne
Arthur Charles Hurne
Ethel Amy Alice Hurne
Dorothy Norman
Henry Norman
-----------------------------------------------
?
1935
34 Essex Street
Joseph Bickley
Maud Bickley
Laban John Green
William Jnr. Thorpe
Ellen Thorpe
Mary Thorpe
William Thorpe
---------------------------------------------
?
1939
34 Shenfield Street
Joseph Bickley
Maud Bickley
Laban John Green
Mary Thorpe
William Thorpe

If you have Fred and Maud together after 1931, this would imply that Maud is not the same person.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7006268

ADM 188/963/48434
Name Bickley, Joseph Andrew Charles
Official Number: K48434
Place of Birth: Limehouse, London
Date of Birth: 17 January 1900

(above if relating in somewhere!)

Chris :)

Lynn ........

The 1939 Register was used as the basis of the NHS (National Health Scheme) that came into being in 1947. It was therefore kept up to date until at least 1991, and occasionally later, with marriages and deaths being entered when found on the UK bmd. The information was added by hand as it became available.

Women on the FMP transcripts were indexed under their later married name with the maiden name in brackets.

So this is the Register Transcription as shown on FMP ...................

Hipgrave (Garner) Household (1 Person)
18 Elmer Gardens , Heston and Isleworth M.B., Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Helen (Louise) Hipgrave (Garner) 30 Oct 1926 At School
Sex Female Marital status Single

Schedule 103 Schedule Sub Number 3


If you look on the actual image of the Register, you can see that Hipgrave has been added in green ink above her maiden name of Garner, and that there is a notation in the address column indicating when the change was made by a series of letters of numbers.

Incidentally she is occupant #3 at that address ... the other 2 names are still closed.

In fact, most of the records on that whole page are closed, with just 4 open to view.

That means that no updates have been done because the proof was not available.

FMP is trying to update as fast as they can, using freebmd, GRO records, and death certificates sent in by users as proof that someone has indeed died.

Hi everyone

Firstly, thank you so much for all your hard work - really amazing!

Here's some further info: Maud was the daughter of Albert and Eliza Baitrum. Eliza died in 1907and Albert in 1910 due, it seems, to the 'demon drink'. They had 8 children several of whom were babies/small children when they died. They weren't put into care as the rest of the family took them in. My g-grandmother, Alice, who was Albert's sister, fostered two for many years.

Maud was cared for by her brother, George, and his 'lodger' Eliza whom he subsequently married. George died on the Somme in 1916.

I don't know what happened to her next until 1925 when she married Fred Garner. She had a daughter, Helen Louise, in 1926 in the Brentford area and Joseph in 1931 in Hackney.

Fred and Maud were living at 47 Rushmore Road 1931-33 and then at 36 Sussex Road, Harrow-on-the-Hill 1934/36. Fred was fathering children with Emma Cockram throughout that time.

In the 1939 register Fred was on his own at Granville Avenue, Spelthorne, Feltham working as a window cleaner. Helen was at Elmer Gardens with the name of Hipgrave in brackets. This is really odd as she married a Cecil Hipgrave from Hereford Road, Spelthorne in 1952. Any suggestions on that one would be very welcome!

I have also noticed that Joseph Garner and Joseph Bickley have the same registration details. Maud's niece, Lizzie Baitrum, married Benjamin Bickley in 1940. Was Joseph B their son?

I suspect that Joseph and Maud Bickley may be a red herring but I'll see if I can find a marriage.

I've ordered several marriage and birth certificates to try and unravel this mystery. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Lynn