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1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Summerhill Road, St George, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Kerslake Head Widow Female 46 1845 - Winscombe, Somerset, England
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Walter Kerslake Son Single Male 21 1870 Shoemaker Somerset, England
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Minnie Kerslake Daughter Single Female 20 1871 Tailoress Somerset, England
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Ada Kerslake Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Tailoress Somerset, England
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Florence Kerslake Daughter Single Female 16 1875 Shoemaker St George, Gloucestershire, England
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Gertrude Kerslake Daughter Single Female 13 1878 - St George, Gloucestershire, England
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Marian Kerslake Daughter Single Female 11 1880 - St George, Gloucestershire, England
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Frederick Jeffries Lodger Married Male 22 1869 Coal Miner St George, Gloucestershire, England
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Lily Jeffries Daughter Married Female 22 1869 - Somerset, England
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Hilda Jeffries Granddaughter Single Female 1 1890 - St George, Gloucestershire, England
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Joseph Maggs Lodger Single Male 22 1869 Compositor St George, Gloucestershire, England

safc

"That" Cyril?

Births Jun 1904 (>99%)
Gunter Henry Cyril Bristol 6a 179

Jude

Jude, Ian sent me a copy of the original short birth cert he has and it is the 1907 Newport birth. He has sent for a full cert so we are waiting to see who parents are.

Hey Jude & Safc, I'll send you the short version of Gradad Cyril's birth cert. - it was def. 1907 & Cyril Henry... so I think that we are still looking at Claires theory... Cheers

Many thanks.... thats even more hanging on Cyrils full birth certificate...

For what it's worth, my opinion is that Cyril was off for a sleepover somewhere and just omitted from the census by accident. I feel his birth certificate will show that John Arthur and Florence are his parents.

However, the anticipated arrival of his birth certificate will brighten the lull between Christmas and New Year celebrations :-)

I was just ruling out the Cyril that SAFC found in Bristol in 1911 whose birth wasn't jumping out from freebmd....not suggesting that the dates were wrong :-)....

Cryil Gunter Son - Male 7 1904 St Georges Bristol School xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Wilfred Gunter Son - Male 4 1907 St Georges Bristol -
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Elizabeth Kerslake Mother In Law Widow Female 70 1841 Winscombe Sommersit Old Age Pensioner

i can't find this cryil on

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

I've tried checking grandfather Jacob and some brothers and sisters to no avail....

Jude

Thanks Jude I see now that it hadn't been you who had posted the Bristol census

Jan - no worries!

"our" Cyril is a real mystery!

Jude

Cyril definitely existed.:) My Grandad. ~ I can remember when he died, my first awareness of death. He had been ill for a few years, but was still working at the Austin in Longbridge, outside B'ham until he died, ~ failing to reach retirement.
He suffered from a bronchial condition that according to Dad, had been caused by the bakery flour dust. Dad though that that was what had killed Cyril's Dad too... But that seems unlikely now, unless of course Dad was confusing John Arthur with Thomas Edward, --- as the Vicar did! but then he was not listed as a baker either...

Cyril smoked a pipe as I remember, in fact he used to keep a full rack of Welsh clay pipes on their mantel piece, they ranged in length from the short - warm, to the long cooler pipes. Those have gone, but i have two of his other old pipes, which I also remember him smoking. ( one is shaped like a pistol, - he filled the handle with tobacco and put the barrel in his mouth! - ironic :)
Despite moving with Helena to Bromsgrove sometime around about 1936, (Dad thinks he was about 3 when they left Wales), neither of them lost their Welsh accents.
I can vividly remember sitting in the back of Dads Vauxhall Viva, with Gran between Paul & I on what felt then like long drives back 'home' to Risca, to see Great Gandma Jewell & the family.

By the way, what do you all think? - The picture i have of the Bakery van, with F. Thomas painted on the side... If neither John or Edward were bakers... Do you think that Florence might have founded and managed the Bakery herself? - Terribly sexist of us to have always assumed that she must have just taken it over when her husband died.... ! why couldn't it always have been her initiative? I think i need to head off to Risca myself, and see if they have anything in the museum. Cheers all.
Ian.
:-)

Ian my own G Grandad was a boiler maker who moved to Wales during the late 19th century. When the work dried up, he opened a fish and chip shop even though he detested the smell of vinegar. It could well be that Cyril's father changed jobs after the 1911 census but I've failed to find any proof by googling.

From the name on the van, it sounds as though Florence was in charge of the bakery in later years. She certainly sounds like an early modern woman.

I'd suggest that you leave your visit to Wales for the moment. If I'm correct with John Arthur then I think his mother may produce further mysteries.

One for Dad- did Cyril have a step sister 2 or 3 years older? Think I've tracked down Edward with his first wife and a daughter named Edith Violet.

Just thinking about why Cyril wasn't in the house in 1911...IF they were bakers then they would have to be up and about very early so maybe they had some arrangement?

Check this link out

http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Kelly-S-Directory-of-Monmouthshire-and-South-Wales-1920/361292/229

Gunter Edward E Confectioner 145 Commercial Street Pontymister

Jude

Hi Claire,
Yes Dad thinks that Cyril had two step sisters, He thinks that one was called Dot, or Dorothy, but he is not sure which husband they were related too either,
(Mr Thomas ~ probably Edward) 2nd Husband or ( George Thomas. ~ who dad remembers as Uncle George)

Dad remembers Uncle George taking dad and my uncle Arthur up the hill from Nana Thomas's (Florence ) house, ( The Bungalow, in Gelli Ave, Risca ) to watch the sheepdog trials. That must have been in the late 1930's.

Good theory Jude... I'll scan the Van image & I might get in touch the Risca Museum & see if they know any more about the bakery...

Cheers
Ian

Maybe?

1911

Name: Edith Violet Thomas
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Risca
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: 50 Commercial Street Pontymister
Registration district: Newport
Registration District Number: 587
Sub-registration district: Rogerstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 81
Piece: 32018
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward James Thomas 41 Packer
Edith Thomas 6 Wife, aged 36 on image
Edith Violet Thomas 6 Daughter
Dorothy Rose James 2 neice
Gwladys Jenkins 15 neice

Married 11 years, 3 children born 1 living and 2 had died.

1901

Name: Edward Jas Thomas
Age in 1901: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Edith Thomas
Mother's name: Elizabeth Thomas
Gender: Male
Where born: Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Risca
Ecclesiastical parish: Risca
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub-registration district: Rogerstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 144
Piece: 4964
Folio: 163
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Jas Thomas 31, Road Lab.
Edith Thomas 26
Elizabeth Thomas 76 Mother

1871

Name: Edward J Thomas
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Thomas
Mother's name: Elizabeth Thomas
Gender: Male
Where born: Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Risca
Town: Pontymister
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: St Woollos
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 237
Piece: 5350
Folio: 161
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
William Thomas 50
Elizabeth Thomas 46
John M Thomas 6
Mary J Thomas 4
Edward J Thomas 1

Name: Edward James Thomas
Registration Year: 1899
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 357

Records on Page:
Name
Eunice Allport
Edith Hughes
Moses Smart
Edward James Thomas

Was in Newport library this morning so took a peep at the electoral rolls and some trade directories for you.

Unfortunately Bedwellty which covers Pontymister only starts after the death of both John Arthur and Edward Edmunds Gunter. I do find the two widows, Florence Ellen and Amy at 25 and 145 Commercial Street respectively.

In the trade director only Edward E at 145 is listed - not specifically as anything - so it might have been quite a general store.

A tree on Ancestry has Edward Edmunds as the brother of John Arthur's father Jacob i.e. John's uncle. So it seems more than possible that this was a family concern. I think the tree is right in respect of the familial relationship. However, there is another Edward E born in Brecknock and they have mixed and matched the two throughout!

Edward was a forgemen/blacksmith (as was John Arthur) right up to 1901 census when he changed to store keeper

Jude

Hum thats fascination Jude, thats very kind of you to actually, as well as virtual digging....
I wonder if WW1 had anything to do with Florence taking over her uncles bakery? - I have photos of various 1'st War uniformed chaps, and a one has a picture of 3 chaps in what look like aprons - There are no names on the photo, but it was taken in india.... ~ Is this a line ???... Did Edward join up the Catering Corps, ( with his bakery background.) & his sister in law take over the bakery..? Perhaps if Amy was a widow Edward didn't make it home from the war?
But why would his sister-in Law take over rather than his wife???
I need to establish who fought, & where. John may have been a little too old, but if Edward was younger he might have signed up or been drafted?
(i'll scan the pics & send them to you.)
any thanks again.
Ian

I think you must have the First Mr Thomas, Rootgatherer..
Edward is listed as Packer, - as per the reference on Cyrils wedding certificate.
The dates & locations are right, and now theres a step daughter called Dorothy. I ask Dad if 'Edith' might ring any bells for Grandads other step sister...
I'm heading back up to his place tomorrow. He has to have more chemo this week, so if all goes well, we should have plenty of time to build all of this amazing research that you and the other helpful souls have been gathering in to our tree.
Thanks again.
Ian