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Hi Joseph,

Thank you for finding that information - just looking at the jobs they have reported. It looks like one of the families ran a pub right near to the Wadsworth brewery - only two along there I know of from way back when: the royal oak and the white bear. Though Devizes is a fair way from Collingbourne and Pewsey (about 15 miles), it's not impossible given Hannah Dyke and Elizabeth Mathews both come from Collingbourne, and Elizabeth's age matches well... Although obviously not confirmed and without meaning to cast a negative light on pubs or ELizabeth herself, a young lady potentially alone and miles from her place of birth (childhood?), and daily around alcohol might also potentially be exposed to quite adult situations that could tie in with later births outside wedlock? Just a sad thought

Hi Flick,

That's a great resource - I never knew!!

Thanks

Hi again,

Regarding Harriett Jeffreys, I have just been informed that she died in Jun 1868, aged 40 in West Ham (4a 4). This would therefore most likely mean that she was still with the Eton James Jeffreys. James was then remarried 1 year later with Charlotte Rowe in Newington, Surrey (m.1869), with a child by Charlotte and moving to Stratford within the next year.

Honor Jeffreys had no recorded father on her birth record. This I am guessing means that Elizabeth was not married in 1862...? Living with her parents in 1861, I am unsure Elizabeth was really ever married, and perhaps just took the name Jefferies with her daughter. I wonder what happened to Honor Jefferies?

Why do I feel this is all going to end quite sad for Elizabeth?

Hi Madmeq,

Yes, Hildaguard is a very unusual name. Though Hilda was ranked #99 in a survey of top 1900s girls names. Also, some family anecdotal suggestions are that Mary Ann may have been particularly interested in royalty. She named several of her children after members of the royal family (perhaps a Judge Jeffreys link in here somewhere). I wonder if Hildaguard was a royal name?

Best wishes,

Paul

Hi again,

Not wanting to jump the gun with any conspiracies or dragging my ancestors’ names through mud here. But, I’ve been thinking of a couple of very tentative guesses about the Jefferies connection, which could perhaps be eliminated.

1. One James Jeffreys (b.1830c, father Edward Jeffreys) came from Eton, Buckinghamshire. He married Harriet about 1849 in Clewer, Berks. But, lived for a few years in Marlborough (near Collingbourne) where he and his wife had a number of children: James Edward (b. 1850 Clewer); William H (b. 1854 Hoxton Old Town, London); Alice Elizabeth (b. 1862 Marlborough, Wilts). James remarried Charlotte Rowe (m.1869 in Newington, Surrey), then moved to Stratford, Essex. Childen were: Arthur Jonathon (b. 1870 Stratford); Walter Alfred (b. 1871 Stratford); Ellen Beatrice (b. 1873 Stratford) and Louisa Emma (b. 1877 Stratford). James was a bookbinder."

Did something go bad/sad in this James's former marriage - maybe Harriet passed away, or could they have divorced? This James Jeffreys was a similar age to Elizabeth… was he Mary Ann’s father? This is complete and utter conjecture, so holds no provable weight – but I was just thinking James was a Journeyman, which I guess may involve importing or exporting goods. Could he have perhaps exaggerated his job and heritage to Elizabethin order to impress her and go away for extended periods of time? Or perhaps did Elizabeth or Mary Ann misunderstand what James did for a living or make a spurious link to James’ past?

2. Many Jefferies (and alternative spellings) were to be found in Hardingstone; a small village just south of Northampton. After a about 40 years living in the north of Northampton, in the 1930s the Westons moved down to here until WWII. My grandmother cannot recall any Jefferies relations, but she was only little then. Perhaps James was originally from Northampton and had only moved down to Wiltshire for a while, before taking Elizabeth Matthews back to live near his family? But, I've never found any connection there.

3. Bitsy (or Betsey) Labrum appeared to most likely be a friend, and the Elisabeth-Bitsy connection perhaps a red herring. Nobody has found any reference to a marriage or other record of an Elizabeth Labrum of the right age or place. Betsy b. 1864 appears to live in the northern part of Northampton, which given William Weston also lived in the Northerly region could perhaps suggest that Mary Ann had lived around there too before marriage, or this could have been a work related thing, or just complete coincidence.

4. If Bitsy was a friend, could the “sea captain” thing be a lie to excuse the fact she was not being "given away" by her father, and perhaps without her mothers witnessing signature, could Mary’s mother have not been there either? Was Elizabeth still alive at this time, or did Elizabeth sort of elope with William? Mary lying doesn’t appear to fit with anecdotal evidence of her being a very charitable and kindly person, able to raise a large happy family. That said, I would have expected a ship’s captain to be worth a few pounds, but once married Mary and William Weston lived in a small terraced house in the North of Northampton, so there's not overwhelming evidence of money that I can see...?

Nothing seems to make sense here, and the more I find no evidence, the less convinced I am of the grander elements of Mary Ann’s reported lineage of captains and judges family history. That said, I may be completely wrong and there’s still lots of scope for answers!!

Best wishes,

Paul

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all so much for your help. That has certainly increased my knowledge of the Jeffreys, and Mary Ann's family. I have also been contacted individually by several people who have come up with similar fascinating information and ideas, including:

- Mary Ann Jefferies was registered born Births Dec 1858, Jefferies Mary Ann Pewsey 5a 158.
- an HONOR TABITHA JEFFREYS Christening: 08 JUN 1862 Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire, England, Mother: ELIZABETH JEFFREYS Family
- Mary Ann Jefferies was with her mother Elizabeth (Betty) in 1861 & Betty's parents Thomas & Ann Matthews.
- Tracing Thomas, Betty may be a step daughter, as she is not with him prior to that.
- Unable to find Elizabeth/Betty before 1861.
- Thomas recorded as widowed in 1851. Second wife was Ann Godden, but the only possibly marriage for Ann Godden to Thomas Matthews is in 1866, and they were down as married in 1861, but prior to this the only match for Ann Godden has a year of birth of 1844, but on 1861 census she gives 1810.
- Can find no marriage for Elizabeth/Betty to make her a Jeffries either
- Could find no James Jeffries/Jeffreys in the Pewsey area on 1841/51 or at sea in 1861.
- Betty is down as married not widowed, so he must be somewhere, unless he used a name other than James, possibly going by a middle name.
- No direct male line to the Jeffreys is possible unless the child was born out of wedlock (perhaps an affair) and this child was given the Jeffreys name. More likely there is an indirect link.
- Bitsy is like Betty a pet form of Elizabeth, but cannot find any evidence that Mary's mother became a Labrum.

The James Jeffreys connection therefore remains a complete mystery. I am completely out of my depth when it comes to researching naval records, so if anyone can offer any help, advice or signposting, I would be very grateful!!

Best wishes,

Paul

The name Hildaguard intrigues me. Hildegard (modern spelling) is a German or Austrian, or similar name. Seems a very unusual name for someone born 1900 in Northampton unless they had European connections.

1881
John JEFFREY Head M Male 50 Wilton, Wiltshire, England Labr Biscuit Facy
Hannah JEFFREY Wife M Female 45 Devizes, Wiltshire, England
Elizabeth JEFFREY Daur U Female 19 Devizes, Wiltshire, England No Occupation
John JEFFREY Son Male 16 Devizes, Wiltshire, England No Occupation
Edward JEFFREY Son Male 13 Reading, Berkshire, England Errand Boy
Alice JEFFREY Daur Female 9 Reading, Berkshire, England Scholar
Matilda JEFFREY Daur Female 5 Reading, Berkshire, England Scholar
Albert JEFFREY Son Male 11 m Reading, Berkshire, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 5 Warren Pl
Census Place Reading St Mary, Berkshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341316
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1302 / 36
Page Number 15

Betsey not Bitsey it seems!! 1881

William LABRUM Head M Male 44 Northampton, England Publican
Emma LABRUM Wife M Female 42 Northampton, England
Charles LABRUM Son U Male 20 Northampton, England Currier
Betsey A. LABRUM Daur U Female 18 Northampton, England Boot And Shoe Fitter
Priscilla LABRUM Daur U Female 15 Northampton, England Scholar
Susannah LABRUM Daur Female 10 Northampton, England Scholar
John LABRUM Son Male 12 Northampton, England Scholar
Selina C. LABRUM Daur Female 9 Northampton, England Scholar
Mary S. LABRUM Daur Female 7 Northampton, England Scholar
Julia B. LABRUM Daur Female 5 Northampton, England Scholar
Florence LABRUM Daur Female 3 Northampton, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 25 Mayorhold (Jolly Smoker)
Census Place Northampton St Sepulchre, Northampton, England
Family History Library Film 1341373
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1547 / 23
Page Number 4

On Wikipedia it says quite a bit about Hanging Judge Jeffries but in particular

George Jeffreys, 1st Baron Jeffreys of Wem, PC (15 May 1645 – 18 April 1689), also known as "The Hanging Judge", was an English nobleman who became notable during the reign of King James II, rising to the position of Lord Chancellor (and serving as Lord High Steward in certain instances)

This second marriage of Jeffreys never produced a male heir, so Jeffreys' only surviving son by Sarah Needham (his first wife), John (or Jacky as he was called at home), became his heir as the second Baron Jeffreys of Wem. John Jeffreys never had a son, so the male line of George Jeffreys became extinct. His descendants have come from his daughters.

Have you looked on freebmd for records?

EDIT.......
Seems not!!

Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
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Jefferies Mary Ann Pewsey 5a 158


The cert will give you ALL the parental info

What about this (distinctly unhelpful I know!!)

1861 England Census

Name: Mary Anna Jefferies
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Collingbourne Kingston
Ecclesiastical parish: Salisbury
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Registration district: Pewsey
Sub-registration district: Pewsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Matthew 56
Anne Matthew 51
Betsy Jefferies 26 daughter Where born: Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire, England
Mary Anna Jefferies 2

Hi,

I'm trying to find information about my g-g-g-grandmother, Mary Ann Jeffreys (or Jefferies). From her marriage and census records I have found out the following information:

- b.1859 Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire, England
- Father's name: James Jeffreys (Q. a "sea captain")
- Census 1861: girl matching mary's name and year of birth living with an Elizabeth Jefferies in Pewsey, Wiltshire. Elizabeth was b.1835 in Collingbourne Kingstone (26 years old in 1861).
- Moved to Northampton at some point before the age of 21.
- m. William Weston on 03/10/1880 in St. Giles, Northampton
- A lady named Bitsy Ann Labrum witnessed for Mary at her wedding (relation or friend?).
- Mary had 5 boys and 6 girls in Northampton: Leonard (b.1882), Gertrude (b.1885), William (b.1886), Beatrice (b.1887), Margaret (b.1889-d.1933), Albert (b.1894), Honor (b.1896), Raymond (b.1897), Hildaguard (b.1900), and Elizabeth (b.1901c)
- My g-grandmother used to say that Mary had said her ancestor was "Hanging Judge Jeffreys"

If anyone is able to help with this person, and in particular her parents, possibly James and Elizabeth Jefferies, I would be most grateful.

Paul