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he fathered several illegitimate children, including six with (Beatrice) May Pinney and other mistresses, including film director Carol Reed and Peter Reed, the father of the British actor Oliver Reed. Does anyone know who the names of these children ? Reason for asking is that there is a rumour in our family, with some written evidence that one of our relatives could be one of these children

Welcome to the boards, Stephen. What is it you want to know?

Ozi

1911. They had 3 children who were all still living


TREE, Herbert Beerholm Married M 56 1855 Manager Of His Majesty's Theatre London VIEW
TREE, Maud Beerbohm Wife Married
27 years F 43 1868 His Wife London VIEW
TREE, Felicity Beerbohm Daughter Single F 16 1895 Student London VIEW
TREE, Iris Beerbohm Daughter Single F 14 1897 Student London VIEW
PALOTA, M Cecile Governess Single F 26 1885 Governess Vienna VIEW
TOWERS, Margaret Servant Widow F 50 1861 Housemaid Nairn VIEW
THATCHER, Charlotte Servant Single F 28 1883 Cook Long Wittenham VIEW
ZWAGEL, Elizabeth Servant Single F 26 1885 Maid Switzerland VIEW
MOSEL, Fritz Servant Single M 19 1892 Footman Switzerland VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
526 Reference:
RG14PN526 RG78PN18 RD7 SD1 ED12 SN125

Registration District:
St Marylebone Sub District:
All Souls Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
St Marylebone

Address:
1 All Souls Place County:
London


1891


TREE, Herbert Beerbohm Head Married M 38 1853 Manager Haymarket Theatre
London VIEW
TREE, Maud K Wife Married F 27 1864
London VIEW
TREE, Viola Daughter F 6 1885
London VIEW
HANDS, Ellen Servant Single F 32 1859 Cook
London VIEW
ANSCOMB, Isabel Sarah Servant Single F 27 1864 Housemaid
Surrey VIEW
RANDS, Annie Servant Single F 29 1862 Housemaid
London VIEW
Piece:
106 Folio:
83 Page:
3 Registration District:
Hampstead

Civil Parish:
Hampstead Municipal Borough:
Hampstead Address:
The Grange, West Heath Road, Hampstead County:
London



1881


TREE, Herbert B Head Single M 28 1853 Actor
St James
Middlesex VIEW
Piece:
329 Folio:
32 Page:
5 Registration District:
Strand

Civil Parish:
St Martin in the Fields Municipal Borough:
Address:
11, Garrick St, St Martin In The Fields County:
London, Middlesex

Is this your Beatrice?

1891 England Census
Name: Beatrice May Pinney
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Pinney
Mother's Name: Honrutha L Pinney [Henrietta on image]
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramdgate, Kent, England [Ramsgate on image]
Civil parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Marks
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 70 Elgin Cres'nt

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: Kensington Town

Piece: 25
Folio: 40
Page Number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
William Pinney Honrutha L abt 1845 Exeter, Devon, England Head Kensington, London - Professor of Music
Honrutha L Pinney William abt 1842 Bristol, Somerset, England Wife Kensington, London
Beatrice May Pinney William, Honrutha L abt 1872 Ramdgate, Kent, England Daughter Kensington, London
Eliza Winson abt 1858 Ipplepen, Devon, England Servant Kensington, London
Emma Clune abt 1868 Cornwall, England Servant Kensington, London

A quote from http://www.facebook.com/pages/Herbert-Beerbohm-Tree/103115599728696

His daughters were Viola, an actress, Felicity and Iris, a poet; and his illegitimate children included film director Carol Reed. A grandson was the actor Oliver Reed.

and from http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715346/bio

Carol Reed was the second son of stage actor, dramatics teacher, and impresario founder of the Royal School of Dramatic Arts Sir Herbert Beerbohm Tree. Reed was one of six illegitimate children of Tree with Beatrice Mae Pinney, who Tree established in a second household apart from his married life.

1911

HORST, Janet Lilian Sister Married F 35 1876 Ramsgate Kent VIEW
REED, Robin Nephew M 7 1904 London VIEW
REED, Guy Nephew M 6 1905 London VIEW
REED, Carol Nephew M 4 1907 London VIEW
REED, Juliet Niece F 11 1900 London VIEW
HALL, Marie Cook Single F 37 1874 Cook Gloucester VIEW
FEGAN, Lucy Maid Single F 26 1885 Maid Dublin VIEW
ST CLAIR, May Maid Single F 26 1885 Parlour Maid Water Ford VIEW
FOLLY, Lena Nurse Single F 28 1883 Nurse Norfolk VIEW
MARTIN, Annie Nurse Single F 20 1891 Nurse Maid London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2401 Reference:
RG14PN2401 RG78PN80 RD26 SD7 ED10 SN61

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
Southfields Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Wandsworth

Address:
198 West Hill Putney SW County:
London

Have you seen this?


http://www.stanford.edu/group/auden/cgi-bin/auden/individual.php?pid=I9605&ged=auden-bicknell.ged
[Beatrice] May Reed [formerly Pinney]
Birth 23 May 1871 26 29 Ramsgate, Kent
Christening 19 June 1871 (Age 27 days)Westbere, Kent

Marriage Sir Herbert Draper Beerbohm Tree [formerly Beerbohm]from 1890 (Age 18)
Note: dating approximate; though not married, they maintained a separate household and had six children

Residence from 1902 (Age 30) 'Daisyfield' House, Putney Heath Road, Putney, London
Note: dating approximate; former house of the artist and astronomer John Brett (1831-1902) who built it in 1887, it became known as 'Herbert Beerbohm Tree's Love Nest'

Event 1904 (Age 32) Changed her last name to Reed

Death 1955 (Age 83) Lingfield Road, Wimbledon, London



Son: Claude Reed, 1891 -
Son: Robin Reed, 1903 -
Son: Guy Reed, 1905 -
Son: Sir Carol Reed, 1906 - 1976
Daughter: Juliet Reed, 1910 -
Son: Peter Reed, 1911 - 1997

Births Sep 1903
REED Robin Hendon 3a 374

Births Jun 1905
Reed Vivian Guy Wandsworth 1d 756

Births Mar 1907
REED Carol Wandsworth 1d 759

Births Jun 1910
REED Juliet Wandsworth 1d 762

Births Sep 1911
REED Peter Pinney Wandsworth 1d 1446

Looked everywhere for Claude with no luck. Large gap between him and Robin. If he is her child he may not be Beerbohm's.

... the Daisyfield house became for 20 years the home of Beatrice May Pinney Reed. She was the statuesque (6-foot tall) mistress of London actor and theatrical producer Herbert Beerbohm Tree (1852-1917), and had six illegitimate children by him.

1901 England Census
Name: William Pinney
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Henrietta Pinney
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England
Civil parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Notting Hill
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 70 Colville Square

Occupation: Professor of Music

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: Kensington Town

Piece: 28
Folio: 23
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
William Pinney Henrietta abt 1846 Exeter, Devon, England Head Kensington, London
Henrietta Pinney William abt 1842 Bristol, Somerset, England Wife Kensington, London
Janet Pinney William, Henrietta abt 1875 Ramsgate, Kent, England Daughter Kensington, London [Janet Horst in 1911?]
Annie Mallon abt 1865 Armagh, Ireland Servant Kensington, London
Ellen Thurigon Mallon abt 1880 Albury, Hertfordshire, England Servant Kensington, London


Births Jun 1871
Pinney Beatrix May Thanet 2a 798

Births Jun 1873
Pinney Janet Lilian Thanet 2a 749

???
Births Jun 1874
Pinney Claude Francis Thanet 2a 829

1881 England Census
Name: Beatrix M. Puiney
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Puiney
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England
Civil parish: Harmmersmith
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 13 Westwick Gardens

Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Fulham
Sub-registration district: St Paul Hammersmith

Piece: 59
Folio: 80
Page Number: 31

William Puiney abt 1846 Exeter, Devon, England Head Harmmersmith, London - Profr Music (Mus Bac Oxon))
Beatrix M. Puiney William abt 1872 Ramsgate, Kent, England Daughter Harmmersmith, London
Janet L. Puiney William abt 1873 Ramsgate, Kent, England Daughter Harmmersmith, London
Claude F. Puiney William abt 1875 Ramsgate, Kent, England Son Harmmersmith, London
Margaret F. Musgrove abt 1854 Southstone, Somerset, England Cousin Harmmersmith, London
Kate Tolly abt 1855 St Laurence, Kent, England Servant Harmmersmith, London
Emily M. Lott abt 1859 Bridge, Kent, England Servant Harmmersmith, London

Is it possible for someone to check this Claude out?

1911
MILITARY REED CLAUDE 1891 20 Overseas Royal Navy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REED, Claude Single ? 20 1891 St Marks Portsmouth Hants VIEW

1901

Name: Claude F Reed
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Reed
Gender: Male
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Portsmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Marys with St Barnabas
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Portsmouth
Sub-registration district: Portsea and Landport
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 999
Folio: 69
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Reed 36
Amy Violet Reed 16
Thomas C Reed 15
Elsie E Reed 13
Herbert S Reed 12
Claude F Reed 10
__________________________________________________

1891

Name: Claude F Reed
Age: 9/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Reed
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Reed
Gender: Male
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England


Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 857
Folio: 70
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Reed 26
Elizabeth Reed 29
Amy V Reed 6
Thomas C Reed 5
Elizabeth E Reed 3
Herbert S Reed 2
Claude F Reed 9/12
______________________________________________________

Name: Claude Frederick Reed
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: Portsea Island
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 430

I wonder why Stephen didn't just google for info........................

Well, he may have already done so, but has not made any clear connection with his family. As usual, we helpers have got our teeth into an interesting case and gone berserk.

I don't think that Claude Frederick Reed from Portsea has anything to do with Beatrice. I find it interesting that there is such an age gap between her two elder boys. Perhaps there were some deaths or miscarriages. I can't find her or Claude in 1901. No birth for Claude either.

Ozi

Perhaps if Stephen said which relative was believed to be connected then there would be some point in looking for information that he could have found from google searches.
If the connection is from another mistress and Beerbohm is not on the birth certificate......

it wasnt info on Beerbohm Tree i was looking for, its the names of the illegitimate children. Oliver Reed's mother is well known as one, i have some written information seemingly from Lady Beerbohm Tree that may suggest my grandmother is one of the illegitimate children ( and her brother) and i have been able to substantiate on the internet or in written biogs thats why i am trying on Genes Reunited. I dont know how many of the illegitimate children have been identified.

The people i am interested in are Cecil Raynes (b 1905), Gladys Raynes (b 1907). Father blank on birth certs.

Speculation in our family that Gladys & Cecil's father was Herbert Beerbohm Tree due to a envelope addressed to Lady Tree, 14 Holbeine Place, Sloane Square, London SW found in Gladys's possessions with contents stateing mother Helene, father Samuel George (who was infact Helene's father), born 2/12/05 & the address of the care home/workhouse on Junction Road, Romford where Gladys & Cecil were placed.

i have been sceptical about this info as they were born in Ilford (not exactly west London but perhaps she worked up west in theatres...no evidence of this though). But why was a card in an envelope with Cecil's dob, mothers name, care home addressed to Lady BBT ? Did the care home send this to her ?

My Uncle visited Bristol Uni some 10 yrs ago to find out more from the Beerbohm archives and was told about illegitimate children etc. He did have a play called Le Belle Helene !

nothing on Google that i can find, noting in written biogs

perhaps will remain a mystery

1911 for Helene? I'm sure you have this but just for info.

KNIGHT, William George Head Married M 62 1849 Civil Servant Junr Examiner Board Trade Kent Wingham VIEW
RAYNES, Helene Servant Single F 26 1885 Domestic Paris France Resident British subject by parentage
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9869 Reference:
RG14PN9869 RG78PN521A RD191 SD2 ED20 SN231

Registration District:
Romford Sub District:
Ilford Enumeration District:
20 Parish:
Ilford

Address:
162 Wellesley Road Ilford E County:
Essex

EDIT Yes I see you have been on the ancestry boards asking for information about her.

Afraid you may be right about the mystery remaining just that for now.

yes, she lived with her parents on the same road in 1901 (no 87)..had 2 children (father unknown) at no 87 ....then 1911 here as a "servant" (or perhaps mistress ?) at no 162