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Incidently, the child born in 1921 (Colin Knubley) died in the same quarter 1921 - so if memories/family stories are correct and they had 1 child that would be the one born in 1915 I would have thought.

Added, this is the child's burial record:

Colin Knubley
Birth Year: abt 1921
Age: 2/12
Burial Date: 23 May 1921
Parish: Walton Park
Reference Number: 283 WAL/4/2/21

His address was 14 Randoph Street, Liverpool. Burial was subject to a "coroners order" whatever that means, I'm not sure - but may indicate an inquest?

And actually, there is another possible child Freda born Q4/1916 in West Derby, which I think was missed from the 2008 posting. So 2 possible children are Fred & Freda - but without their certificates you wouldn't know their mother's name as I can't see a christening.

OK, looking back over this, I was going to ask a stupid question like who the He** was Gertrude, then I saw the link to your earlier thread. So, please forgive me if I offend, but just throwing a few thoughts around.

Are the births posted by Shirley 28 April 15:31 those of your f-i-l & siblings? If so, could Alfred have been drafted into WW1 - hence the gap between 1914 & 1921? Have you checked for a military record/pension?

Or, had Eveline already ditched Alfred and moved back to "home territory" in Wiltshire to be near her family? Maybe Norman was not Alfred's son if this is the case (especially if the earlier child for Gertrude was right). Any married woman could name her husband as father of child, without him being there - on some occasions many years after his death!

On your 2008 thread, there were 2 children suggested for Gertrude in 1915 & 1921 - do you know if either of them are possibly the children for her and Alfred & how did you arrive at her name as the possible "other woman"?

Finally, I agree with Pat, they would not have had to have married for Gertrude to have taken his name - anyone can call themselves anything they like, so long as it is not to defraud. But the same would apply to Alfred, he may have died under a completely different name.

Like I say, not trying to offend, just throwing out some thoughts/angles for further investigation.

Thank you everyone for putting a lot of time into this. Some of the info I already had, but some was of help too. The fact is, Alfred 'disappeared' in about 1920, we think he went to the Greater London area, Cricklewood has been mentioned but we have no proof. Norman (his son) was 12 and visited the cemetery with his mother (Alfred's wife) but couldn't remember which cemetery it was. This might be a red herring, as his memory wasn't that great. Norman has since died. We have been to several cemeteries where we think he was buried, but haven't discovered anything. We think he died between 1925 and 1935. Gertrude, we think, died around 1928.

Any chance this is Gertrude's death?
She does not have to have married Alfred, just taken his name.
Gertrude F Shaw
Birth Date: abt 1897
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1964
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Fylde
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10c
Page: 260

Hi Jane,

Please go back to what your husband remembers. Is the family posted his relatives? Where and when did he last know of his grandfather's existence and does he remember his grandmother - was she alone or with his grandfather? And like I asked earlier in the thread, who was his parent?

Previous thread from 2008

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_topics/thread/1058376

A tree on ancestry has much information about his family, children, and wife including her death. But not his death.
Perhaps get her death certificate for further informant.
Do none of your relatives have details for him?

Added:
They quote the Salisbury death at age 89 for her.

Ancestry tree owned by JanHolland45.

I think Evelyn died in Salisbury

Civil Registration event: Death


Name: SHAW, Evelyn Blanche
Registration district: Salisbury
County: Wiltshire
Year of registration: 1970
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Date of birth: 5 September 1881
Volume no: 7C
Page no: 1967

and her birth

Births Dec 1881 (>99%)
SWAYNE Evelyn Blanche Wilton 5a 203

Name: Dorothy A Shaw
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1911
Registration district: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 499


Name: Mary E Shaw
Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1912
Registration district: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 1008

Name: Alice E Shaw
Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1913
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 1341

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Agnes G Shaw
Name: Agnes G Shaw
Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1914
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 1416


Name: Norman Shaw
Mother's Maiden Surname: Swayne
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1921
Registration district: Salisbury
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 301

Evelyn died in London

Name: Evelyn B Shaw
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1956
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 745

lived with uncle from an early age
1891 England Census about Evelyn B Swayne
Name: Evelyn B Swayne
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Langford, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Steeple Langford
Ecclesiastical parish: Steeple Langford
Town: Great Bathampton
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address:grt Bathampton Farm

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Wilton
Sub-registration district: Wilton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1622
Folio: 103
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
George F Gay 39 occ farmer
Matilda M Gay 43
Evelyn B Swayne 9
Ann Foyle 17
Laura Hartnell 14

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1622; Folio: 103; Page: 16; GSU Roll: 6096732.

you may need the marriage cert for further info

Name: Alfred Robert Shaw
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1909
Registration district: Amesbury
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 376
spouse Evelyn Blanche Swayne


Name: Evelyn Blanche Swayne
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1881
Registration district: Wilton
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 203



1901 England Census about Evelyn Swayne
Name: Evelyn Swayne
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Staple; Langford, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Winterbourne Gunner
Ecclesiastical parish: Winterbourne Gunner St Mary
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address:Manor Farm

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Amesbury
Sub-registration district: Winterbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Piece: 1950
Folio: 47
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
George F Gay 49 occ farmer
Matilda Gay 50
Evelyn Swayne 19
Catherine Powell 49
Edith May 22

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1950; Folio: 47; Page: 11.

Only birth showing:
Births Sep 1883
Shaw Alfred Robert Northampton 3b 88

Have you got an approximate idea of death date?

Last birth to the couple appears to be in 1921 Salisbury

When and where was your husband's parent born, and what was their name please? Otherwise anything found would be guesswork.

You don't say where he was born. Is this him in 1911

1911 census transcription details for: 38 Haldane Avenue Bhead

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN22048 RG78PN1309 RD452 SD2 ED45 SN127
Reg. District: Birkenhead
Sub District: Tranmere
Parish: Birkenhead
Enum. District: 45
Address: 38 Haldane Avenue Bhead
County: Cheshire

SHAW, Alfred Robert Head Married M 27 1884 Student Of Theology Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire
SHAW, Evelyn Blanche Wife Married F 29 1882 Steeple Langford Wiltshire
SHAW, Dorethy Amy Daughter F 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Birkenhead Cheshire

Any information on the above would be great. He was my husbands grandfather and we cannot find out when or where he died.