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AG- there is lots in the papers re Sybil Vane being Elizabeth Jenkins and her father being Shad Jenkins. Sybil married Leon Domque (a wealthy pianist from California).

However, I hadn't seen the Sibylla Vane- so another possible, although I cant see anything else on her, perhaps that was also a stage name?

Going a bit off-piste here, and not helping with Agnes . (My apologies!) -


if it wasn't for the fact that AQ says she was born in Cardiff, I would say this looks like Sybil Vane in 1911:


Sibylla Vane
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Sibylla Vane
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Leicester, Leicester, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 1 Abbey Gardens N W
Marital status: Single
Occupation: ARTISTS MODAL
Registration district: St Marylebone
Registration District Number: 7
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 588
Household Members:
Name Age
Sibylla Vane 24
Regina Gratz 19 - actress

By 1919 she was living in Chelsea - so maybe had come to know Agnes in that way. But living in Cheyne Walk - a long way from Elystan Road.


Where did you find the info re Sybil Vane aka Elizabeth Jenkins, AQ? I don't see anything on Google.

This is the Elizabeth Jenkins you mention, in 1911, at home with her parents:

Elizabeth Jenkins
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Elizabeth Jenkins
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 54 Dogfield St Cathays Cardiff
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Music Student <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Household schedule number: 250
Piece: 32105
Household Members:
Name Age
Shadrach Jenkins 53
Sarah Jenkins 48
Elizabeth Jenkins 24
Frene Jenkins 14
Bernard Jenkins 32

Thank you so much

I suspect by 1987 that things were changing. I don't think there was any law to prevent an RC burial after suicide- it may have also helped that she was buried away from the area she had died.

I'm sorry I can't give any more details. I think the only way to tell if the story is true is to purchase the death certificate.

I'm out for the evening, but I'll look into Mary Clara/ Clara Thorne tomorrow.

I've just noticed that Dorothy was in a consecrated grave, though she was supposed to have committed suicide after killing her lover - so perhaps the family story isn't right. Though Anne is sure she remembers reading about it in the tabloid press.

I don't think as a single woman that Agnes born around 1889 would appear on the electoral register in 1911

I'm not sure if I've already posted this here, but will add it now in case it helps:

I found an Agnes M Kelly in 1911 London Electoral Register at 6 Denmark Street (office), home address 82 Vincent Square, Westminster. I found 82 Vincent Square in the 1911 census, St. George's Hotel, a ladies' residential club - but no Agnes M Kelly.

Interesting that Clara Thorne was a needle worker, as Agnes was supposed to be an excellent seamstress, though the occupation given on her marriage certificate was governess.

Jan- Agnes place of death is recorded on the burial register- that's how I know she was Herrison Mental Hospital.

I'm now looking into something else, I don't know at the moment if it's significant.

On her marriage certificate Agnes recorded her address as 28 Elystan Road.

Looking at the electoral registers, in 1915 a Mary Clara Thorne was listed at the address.

In 1919 there is a Clara Thorne at the same address (presumably the same lady), also a John Newton listed there (John Newton is listed in the trade directories as a surgeon also of 49 Oakley Street Chelsea).
-----------------------------

It's possible that this is the lady in 1911- states she's a widow with no children, I'm struggling to find any information for her:

1911 Census For England & Wales

98 Arthur St Chelsea, Chelsea, London & Middlesex, England
Clara Thorne - Widow Female 57 1854 Needle Work Worksop Nothingham

Oh thank you Super Sleuth AustinQ!!! How did you find that she was in a mental hospital? And the cemetery records?

Anne remembers visiting Agnes in Chapel Park Road till about 1965, then the visits stopped. She thought it was because her mother didn't want to keep in touch with her after being deserted by Agnes' son, but perhaps it was because she moved away, and/or died.

I wonder if the death certificate would give any useful information - perhaps Dorothy might have registered it. There's only one way to find out :-)

No Austin but it is a tiny step further on the trail.............

Dea x

Thanks Dea - :-D

but it doesn't help with Agnes' birth or her father. :-|

Ohhh - Well done AustinQ !!!!

It looks like you have this sorted !!

Dea x

OK- think the above Agnes death/ burial is correct. On your other thread we discussed about this being Agnes' daughter:

1939
Convent Of Our Lady Filsham Road , Hastings C.B., Sussex, England
Dorothy M Herrington 30 Jul 1917 Female Nun Lay Sister -

and this being her death:
Name: Dorothy Harrington
Death Age: 70
Birth Date: 30 Jul 1917
Registration Date: Dec 1987
Registration district: Surrey North-western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 17 Page: 802

Well, it looks as though despite her death being registered in Surrey, she was also buried at Blandford Forum Cemetery:

Burial Register
last name HARRINGTON
first names DOROTHY MARY
Death date: 14 October 1987
Burial date 04 November 1987
Location Blandford Forum Cemetery (Dorset)
Grave: Consecrated (Roman Catholic)
Unfortunately the address and other particulars on the burial register are blanked out (this is to protect potentially living people), but I'm pretty certain this is Agnes daughter.

I think this death was mentioned earlier- I don't know if it was discounted, but this lady was in the Dorset area because she was a patient at Herrison Mental Hospital, Charmouth. She died at the hospital on the 22nd November 1966 and was buried at Blandford Forum Cemetery on the 25th November in the RC section :

Deaths Dec 1966
HARRINGTON AGNES M 78 WEYMOUTH 7C 841

It is possibly our Agnes- people with mental health issues were often hidden away- a possible reason why she wasn't in Hastings?
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I also looked into the witness Sybil Vane- she was a singer. Her real name was Elizabeth (or Mary Elizabeth) Jenkins born c1887 Cardiff, daughter of Shadrach Jenkins and Sarah Jones. She was fairly well known in 1916 when Agnes married, and had already had some success in the US. She seems like an unlikely witness to Agnes' wedding, but I can't see another Sybil Vane that fits.

I have today received Anne's father's birth certificate, his mother is named as Agnes Mary. So Agnes Mary there and on her marriage certificate, Mary Agnes on her son's marriage certificate.

I think it would be worth getting a copy of the Will of Mary Harrington, if only to conclusively rule her out :-|

I was just wondering if it would be worth getting a copy of the will of that Mary Harrington who died in 1971 in St Peters Nursing Home - it is so exactly right for our Agnes Mary.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills


Find a will or ‘grant of representation’ for people who died in or after 1858.

A ‘grant of representation’ gives someone the legal right to deal with a deceased person’s estate. This right is called ‘probate’.

You can order copies of documents online. They cost £10 each - you can pay by debit or credit card.


It can take up to 10 working days for you to receive your documents. Working days do not include weekends or public holidays.

Probate site:

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

You can buy a copy of a Will for £10 via that site - you'll see where it says "Add to basket" beside the search result.

Oh Choccy, you are such a wizard at this, I looked for a possible death for her but didn't find one. Another dead end - literally :-(

What is this probate search site, please? Is it possible to view wills?