Find Ancestors

I tried checking births for this couple yesterday but the web site for the "Departement du Nord" was down.
It is now working again so have checked births and this is what I found:-

No births in St. Omer so looks as though the couple went to live in Tourcoing where Hélène Marie was born:-

Alexandre Auguste Croft born 17 Sept.1920
Alfred Augustin Croft born 31 Aug 1921
Joseph Henri Croft born 5 Feb 1923
Hélène Sophie Mary Croft born 14 Oct 1924

.....so 4 children, not 2

...........not sure if the Henri Edmund Croft also born 1924 could be part of this same family??
....................................
Looks like it was Alfred Augustin who married Bridget:-

Marriages Dec 1943 (>99%)

Croft Alfred A Murphy Birmingham 6d 1077
Croft Alfred A McGarvey Birmingham 6d 1077
McGarvey Brigid Croft Birmingham 6d 1077
Murphy Brigid Croft Birmingham 6d 1077
.............................................
Death for Alfred Augustin Croft already posted by alviegal
..................................
Death of Bridget already posted by greyghost
........................................................

In case this is of interest:-
Father of Hélène:- Auguste Joseph Glorieux b.15 Aug 1852 in Tourcoing (Lillie) (occupation- (Hairdresser)
Mother of Hélène:- Sophie Zenobie Joseph Delberghe b.31 Aug. 1856, Halluin

Well Team--I am overwhelmed by your responses, and wealth of search knowledge.
I have documents covering my great uncle A.A Croft's Birth &Marriage , and some Army service docs, Thanks to a kind GR member who obtained the marriage copies while on holiday in France, and sent them to me.I was not sure where the two (known) children were born, or exactly when, 'Ninette was born, although I have Alexander Auguste's Birth copy--or when tthey came to Britain. Back in Birmingham , the family city, my half sister who was about 8 in the mid 1930's, remembered 'Uncle ALEX' visiting the family, with his French wife, and a son and daughter ( her name was 'Ninette' ) she said. They managed a Pub on the Coventry road, leading out of Birmingham, and the family would go there for Sunday lunch. RE--107 Golden Hillock Rd, it T junctions with the Coventry Rd. There is a mass of information here, some already known, but MUCH, new to me , which will take some sorting out. I will get back to each individual ASAP. Once again , Thank you all so much--Arfemo.

The daughter Helene Sophie Mary is deceased - though I can't see the details without a sub:

https://tinyurl.com/vkwla6m

Perhaps she was known as Ninette to avoid confusion with her mother.

Ninette is just a nickname. It is usually used for girls with names ending in 'nette' like Jeanette, or Linette but can be given to others.

If anyone has an account with Myheritage, Hélène Sophie Mary's death is also noted on there, the date given is 2003 in France but you need a sub there too.

Due to a change in circumstances, I am unable to thank individuals, for their terrific efforts, but what this has done, is re awaken a long-outstanding sleeper, that will now be well on the way to being completed. Once again , many thanks. everyone. (Arfermo)

For those that may be interested I have received a copy of the death certificate for Hélène Marie Joseph Croft, translation below:-

547.- Glorieux Hélène Marie Joseph
The 28th March 1966 at 3:00am, has died at home 74 rue de la Paix : Hélène Marie Joseph GLORIEUX no profession, born at Tourcoing (North) the 22nd February 1883, daughter of Augustin GLORIEUX, deceased. WIDOW of Alexandre Alfred CROFT. Recorded the 28th March 1966 at 11:30 on the declaration of Michel Segard, 29 years old, Mortician, living at 118 Boulevard Cleémenceau at Hem, who, invited to read the act and reading done, signed with Us, Madeleine Hahusseau, married name Desurmont, Civil registrar by delegation.

Trying to find a last sighting of Alexander:-

Name: Alexander A Croft - (On his own)
Residence Year: 1945
Ward or Division/Constituency: Acocks Green
Street address: 66 Woodvale Road (Scribers Lane)
Residence Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England


........so if this is the last known sighting of him, his death would be between 1945
and 1966

Later sighting already posted - posting here again for ease;

Alexander A Croft
in the Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
Name: Alexander A Croft
Residence Year: 1950
Ward or Division/Constituency: Sparkbrook
Street address: 107 Golden Hillock Road
Residence Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

With Alfred A, Bridget, and Joseph H.

PM from Arfermo:

Hi helper, the Alexander A Croft, who became a Post office Telegraphist, is probably his son Alexander AUGUSTE Croft, who sailed on the P&O liner ''Chusan'', to Bombay India, 11/09/1950, aged 30.listed occupation 'Telegraphist'. I have a copy of his Birth Certificate from the British Vice consulate at Croix (Nord) France, d.O.B 16/09/1920. 'Tourcoing --Nord.
It's such a irritationg issue, where sons and grandsons names , are those of parents and Grandparents.
I've been given another possible, for this couple,
Alfred Augustin Croft. I've never heard of a middle name 'shared' by brother's, even if it is spelled slightly different. Have you ? Thanks for all your efforts



My reply:

The same middle name is frequently given to siblings - for instance if it's the mother's maiden surname.
But not the same forename as well, except in cases where the first child died before the birth of the second one.

I think Auguste and Augustin are the same name (ie - he's the same person). It's just been written differently by different people - different nationalities? He's Augustin on his death cert (posted on page one of this thread).

What details have you been given about another son of the same name? Dates? Records to support it?


EDIT:
But since sending that, I have realised what Arfermo means.

The DOB given on his death cert (30/08/1921) doesn't match that on the birth cert Arfermo has ( 16/09/1920).

It's possible that the age given on the 1950 travel record isn't accurate.

If it's the 1920 person who travelled in 1950, then either
(a) the man who died in 1970 isn't the same man (which seems unlikely given the coincidence of the name and place)
or (b) the informant on the death cert didn't know the correct DOB.

Perhaps you need to buy a copy of the death cert to see all the details.

A tree on Ancestry has the image of a page of "Consular Births 1921-1925. Pages 15-19."

(Note that this is 1921-25 - not 1920.)

It lists:
Alexander A C Croft, Alfred A Croft, and Joseph N Croft - all at Croix consulate.

The tree owner (Vanessa Bettinson) says that his birth was 30/08/1921 - though judging by the sources quoted, she's taken that from the death cert..

The father of Helene Sophie Joseph Glorieux, mother of the children, was called Auguste so not unusual that the two eldest boys were given his name, it's very common in France.

Just to confirm as there seems to be some confusion with the names:-

The eldest brother is Alexander Auguste born 17th Sept 1920. He is the Alexander A Croft living at 107 Golden Hillock Road, who went to India in 1950

The brother that died in 1970 is Alfred Augustin (not Alexander) who was born in 1921 and married Bridget in 1943
Name: Alfred Augustin Croft
Birth : 30/08/1921
Death: 01/1970 Birmingham Warwickshire England

Oh yes, of course!

Thanks for clearing that up, Catherine! All perfectly straightforward now you've pointed that out.

:-)

Arfermo here folks--ie Philip Croft, sorry for the confusion over ID. I'm glad I'm not the only one bamboozled by these names and their spellings. BUT--we are getting there now, we have a tree shape, with names etc on it. It's still surprising how our family member's can get 'lost' in comparatively modern times. The main mystery for me, was Helene Marie being buried , back in her home city , on her own--with no sign of hubby Alexander there , or over here.- or evidence of his movements. Of his siblings, I only knew of one other brother--my grandfather William Henry, nobody ever mentioned Jane (the eldest) died 1927, or brother John Thomas, who died in 1938. Families eh?

Hi, just a bit of info on daughter Hélène Sophie Mary Croft, to tie up a loose end.
I ordered her death certificate just before the shut down but the registrars office couldn't send it to me as they were closed for while but I have now received a copy so I am posting the information on it.

Croft Hélène Sophie Mary
The 9 August 2003 at 15:30
died at her home Le Vert Prè, Rue Pierre de
Coubertin, Hélène Sophie Mary CROFT, born 13 October 1924 at
TOURCOING (Nord), retired daughter of Alexandre Alfred CROFT,
deceased, and of Hélène Marie Joseph GLORIEUX, deceased, widow of
Albert Arthur PECQUEUX, drawn up the 11 August 2003 at 16:08
on the declaration of Oliver TOP, 38yrs, employer
living 5, Place Carnot at LANNOY (Nord), who, reading
done and invited to read the article signed with us, Sabine
SPELEERS married VANDENBOSCH, officer of l'Etat-Civil by
delegation of the Mayor of Roubaix.

Albert ARthur PECQUEUX
Naissance : Le 12 avril 1921, à Terrefondree (Terrefondrée, Côte-D'or, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, France)
Décès : Le 13 février 1986, à Marquette-Lez-Lille (Marquette-Lez-Lille, Nord, Hauts-De-France, France)
Âge : 64

Catherine ,what can I say, I'm so very thankful for the interest and peseverance. I'lve quickly printed the details and will have to read it later. I'm having serious technical problems , with multiple cases of screen blanking out ,and losing information , permanently, so thanks again, really appreciated, Philip Croft (Arfermo)

You're weldome Philip :-)