Genealogy Chat

Hi again Gill..no Joseph Gorse ever baptised at Mackworth.
You are no doubt aware that the 18th century GORSE family were called GORST or GOSSE......so we have JOSEPH GORST bapt mackworth 16.12.1773.

Joseph Gorse married Mary SHARP at Mackworth 18.07.1819 and had the following children (no Joseph!)

Eliza baptised 15.01.1827
Mary 04.10.1824
Emma 05.04.1826.died 15.01.1827
SARAH..not Joseph..27.01.1828
John 26.03.1830 died 21.11.1830
Emma 10.10.1831

There is what i take to be a mistranscription
Allt the children of Joseph (Turner/wheelmaker) were baptised at St.Werbergh's Derby.

Sarah 27.01.1828 is the duaghter of Joseph (Turner/wheelwright) batised St. Werbergh's Derby...............mother shown as Ann..
which has to be wrong becasue there is no record of joseph and Ann..and the entry is right in the middle of an identical block of children..of Joeseph and mary Sharp.

HOPE springs eternal.......lol..and is in the very north of Derbyshire ,as in Hope Valley..where there are no doubt eternal springs!!

Derek

Hello Derek, hope you're well ! , would really appreciate your help with Joseph Gorse 1793 from Mackworth ,is it possible to find a marriage for him to a Mary?
He was the son of James and Sarah(ratcliff) i have the following children for Joseph and Mary.... I THINK!! all from Mackworth,
Eliza 1821
Mary 1824
Emma 1825?
Joseph 1828
John 1830
Emma 1831?... bapt dates would be a bonus . lol
Also did Joseph have a brother Levi 1791 also from Mackworth??

Sorry i know it's a lot to ask.. many thanks

Gillx

EDIT**** Where is HOPE!?? Ha Ha.. best get the map out!

Hi Jill..well there must be a certificate.because the FODD baptism has a Folio and page number, as you have found. That clearly is mistranscription.
I don't have the Derby parish records, so can't see the original till i next go to the Matlock Records Office..which i will do.
Derek.

Hi Derek, this is my Harriet.Yes they moved around a lot! I was really hoping to get hold of a cert to flesh things out and find out where they lived. Does this mean that there is a cert somewhere but that it never can be found?........jill

Hi Jill..I'll trawl through some of my Parish records....see if i can find anything....Have found Harriet Gertrude FODD in Derbyshire BMD;s 1877 Derby......but not on the census..more later.....

OK..ADDITION..I think I might have cracked it:

HARRIET TODD born Derby 1877

Father: James Todd...Fancy Glass Maker of Camberwell London..
and his wife Harriet formerly of Peckham London..

Son Charles b 1874 Camberwell
Daughter Harriet..(no mention of Gertrude) b DERBY 1877.

But for some reason by 1881 they have moved back to 96 Edmund Street Camberwell.

So perhaps he moved to Derby for some kind of short time work contract with his wife and baby Charles...had Harriet in 1877...and before 1881 they all went back home!!
Any good to you??

Derek

Derek, thankyou for your time regarding Harriet Todd. I think it has been entered as Harriet Gertrude FODD. However I sent off for the cert(1877/Derby/07B/504) but the records office say that the reference in the index is wrong;due to an error made when the index was compiled. Where does this leave my search? Is there any way she can be traced? I'm relieved that she was actually registered!.........jill

jillignite.......Hi Jill.....I have searched high and low for you and come up with nothing......I have Harriet..and Gertrude in various Guises,,,,,but nothing to show a derby provenance. have you any other information??

Derek

Have just acquired the Parish records for HOPE in Derbyshire, if anyone needs anything from them, just shout!

Derek

Hi Derek
Thanks for that information but Thomas definitely born around 1810 (definitely died Stoke on Trent 1901 aged 91. Buried Hartshill cemetery). Only know his father's name was Joseph from marriage certificate of 2nd marriage of Thomas in 1866. Profession of Joseph given as bricklayer. Thomas lived in Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire in 1841,1851 & 1861. (Have all census records) He was married to a Sarah Elson (died around 1860?) but I have been unable to find any record of their marriage or of Sarah's christening (in Madeley?) or of the birth of a son Stephen (born 1830?) listed with them in 1841 & 1851 census. I have full details (birth, 2 marriages & death) of their younger son John born 1841.
Thomas' birthplace is variously listed on census records as Rocester or Alton, Staffordshire & as Derbyshire. He may have been born one place & christened in another. On IGI in Rocester & Alton there is a Jane Vernon (1813) & an Elizabeth Vernon (1810/11) who I believe may be Thomas' sisters. On IGI their parents are listed as Joseph & Hannah. Having seen the Joseph & Hannah you mention I have looked at some Wesleyan records but to no avail.
Thomas is as far back as I can get with this line of our family. I have found no Joseph Vernon marriage in Rocester or Alton or any birth of a Thomas or Joseph Vernon around the right dates in those registers so thought nearby Derbyshire worth a try. From IGI I did find a Thomas (with a father Joseph) born 1809 at Longford & somewhere I have found a marriage between a Joseph Vernon & Hannah Shelton 1809 at Longford.
Also I did find a Joseph Vernon (born 1790, Brailsford) in 1851 census a bricklayer listed as married but living with an unmarried housekeeper in Quarndon, Belper, Duffield. Across at Alton there is a Hannah Vernon who lists herself as wife of a bricklayer but no husband present. She is with married daughter, Jane Sparrow (nee Vernon & her family). Probably clutching at straws making this connection but this search is sooo difficult.
Sorry this is such a rant
Would love to get that one step back.

Michele

Michele

Hello Derek, When you run out of things to do (!!) could you look for the following?.....Harriet Gertrude Todd. Born approx 1877. Her census records always show birthplace as Derby.(An elderley aunt thinks Matlock but not sure)....................thankyou for your time...................jill

Hi Michelle..the best i can do for the moment (I'm off to Matlock records Office again next week)..is the following

I havbe found no early Vernons yet......are your dates right?? becasue Brailsford/Longford.Ashbourne is definitley the right neck of the woods.

Joseph Vernon (1809) married Hannah (1807) about 1846
They had six children including Thomas born 1851..the lived at Lonford lane Longford.
Joseph was a Mason..Tombstone Engraver, and local Wesleyan Preacher!!
If they are in fact Weslaeyans that might be why they are so hard to find because we need the Non-conformist Parish Records..

I'll have a look in Matlock for you.

Derek

Hi Derek
We have been in contact before re Joseph Vernon marriage to Hannah ? sometime in late 1700s/early 1800s in Derbyshire. There are certainly a lot of Hannahs around at the time I see. You checked Brailsford for me but not there. Thought maybe Ashbourne, Longford or even Derby. Also the birth of Thomas Vernon to Joseph & Hannah Vernon anywhere in Derbyshire, 1810-11.

Thanks
Cheers

Michele

Hi Derek,

I have looked at 1841 census again and it reads ..
St Martins at Market Place
Leicester
Mary Winchester age 50
Lydia Winchester age 45
Elizth Harley age 20 ... have blown this up several times and I feel it says .. Harley
image from Ancestry.com.uk web site

All dates fit in with Elizabeths parents being Julia and Henry Harley ( info also from parish records and the IGI ).. and she is not with her parents in the 1841 census , they are under the 'Hartley' name in the St Marys district of Leicester ... . as you can see this research has not been easy, due to misspelling/mistranscribing of info from the census.


But.. I am open to all corrections....

Will be away at the end of next week, so may not get back to you for a few days ....... off to Perth Western Australia to celebrate a friends 60th birthday... just a 5 hour flight and then a 6 hour drive and then we arrive at Onerup , which means , meeting place of the kangaroos .. but what a beautiful place.. out in the " OUTBACK OF AUSTRALIA'


I hope everyone celebrates EASTER in their own special way....

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane


EDIT NOTE... Elizabeth is Bap Elizabeth Morely Harley on 26 May 1822 at St Margaret Leicester... K

Good morning Karen...now i remember...I'll have a good look at the Chesterfield registers when i go to Matlock..probably next week.
One tip..on 1841 census...Morley and Harley are likely to be the same name...mistranscription...xx
Derek

Hi Derek,

Tks for getting back to me...

My info on these two ladies is brief. But I have been researching the Winchester family from Chesterfield for several months, and you have been good enough to find some info for me. My first request was for cfm of info on Samuel Winchester bc 1771 and Elizabeth Morely bc 1776, and their daughter Julia bc 1796. All the info I have appears to come from the St Mary and All saints area of Chesterfield. The name Lydia Winchester pops up all the time in the families I have found. On the 1841 census Lydia and Mary have a "Elizabeth Harley' bc 1841 staying with them ,who happens to be the daughter of Julia Winchester and her husband Henry Harley , who also have a dau Lydia and one named Mary Harley. I am convinced there is a connection but cannot join the dots.

I am about to ask Mike of Leicester fame to view parish records on death of Mary and Lydia to see if I can get more info...

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Hi Karen..I'm sorry i cannot find a Lydia Winchester either in my Parish registers or in the census..have you any more information? i don't have any records for Leicestershire...sorry x

Derek

Hi Derek,

Not sure if you can help me with this one...

I have a Lydia Winchester bc 1792-1796 in Derby Cheshire ?? ( from 1851 census and her sister Mary Winchester bc 1784-1791 in Derby Cheshire ???..

This info comes from the 1841 and 1851 census, both in St Martin Leicestershire. If possible I would like to find the girls parents. Neither girl marries and they die 1859 and 1858 in Leicestershire.

Look forward to hearing from you....

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Thankyou ,Thankyou ,Thankyou,see your other thread, lol

Gill x

Fudge 1..Gill i have PM'd you about the Askews.

Derek

Margaret...Judith Sleigh was baptised in Hartington..and i have a family for her if you want it...Yhere are loads of both Sleighs and Twiggs in the area of Earl Sterndale?Hartington/Buxton.. if you want any more info.just shout.
Glad to have been of help.

Derek