Genealogy Chat

The third possibility is:

Births Mar 1889 (>99%)
Foulkes Alice Warrington 8c 249
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1889
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice Latchford Warrington LAT/15/160

I've not found Alice's dad, but then,I don't know for sure her dad is Thomas. She wouldn't be the first illegitimate kid to name an invented dad on her m.cert.
However, I do know her grandparents did have a son called Thomas Foulkes.

1901
Samuel Foulkes abt 1831 city, Lancashire, England head city, Lancashire
Catherine Foulkes abt 1831 city, Lancashire, England wife city, Lancashire
Kate Risley [Kate Foulkes] abt 1873 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
May Risley abt 1898 city, Lancashire, England granddaughter city, Lancashire
Alice Foulkes abt 1889 city, Lancashire, England granddaughter city, Lancashire

rg13/3584/156/? Warrington


1891
Samuel Foulkes abt 1832 Latchford, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
Katherine Foulkes abt 1832 city, Cheshire, England wife city, Cheshire
William Foulkes abt 1868 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
Katie Foulkes abt 1872 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire

rg12/3081/23/? (Registration Sub-District 5 Latchford, Registration District 459.WARRINGTON)


1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Samuel FOULKES Head M Male 51 Latchford, Cheshire, England Joiner
Catherine FOULKES Wife M Female 50 Latchford, Cheshire, England
William FOULKES Son U Male 13 Latchford, Cheshire, England Scholar
Kate FOULKES Daur U Female 8 Latchford, Cheshire, England Scholar
Emma SPENCER Niece U Female 15 Latchford, Cheshire, England Weaver Cotton

Source Information:
Dwelling 44 St James St
Census Place Latchford, Cheshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341908
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3799 / 26
Page Number 46

[Latchford is essentially a part of Warrington]

Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
ENGLAND Samuel Warrington 8c 124
>>FOULKES Samuel Warrington 8c 124
ROWSON Nancy Warrington 8c 124
>>SPENCER Catherine Warrington 8c 124
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1853
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FOULKES Samuel SPENCER Catherine Grappenhall, St Wilfrid Warrington C5/2/13



1871
Thomas Foulkes abt 1803 city, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
Sarah Foulkes abt 1804 city, Lancashire, England wife city, Cheshire
Sarah Mooney [Sarah Foulkes] abt 1849 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Richard Mooney abt 1845 city, Staffordshire, England son-in-law city, Cheshire
Thomas Arthur Mooney abt 1871 city, Cheshire, England grandson city, Cheshire

rg10/3908/27-28/?-?

Samuel Foulkes abt 1831 city, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
Catherine Foulkes abt 1831 city, Cheshire, England wife city, Cheshire
Samuel Foulkes abt 1855 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
William Foulkes abt 1868 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
Annie Foulkes abt 1870 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Ann Spencer abt 1790 city, Lancashire, England mother-in-law city, Cheshire

rg10/3908/28/? [Latchford RD=Warrington]


1861
Thomas Foulkes abt 1804 city, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
Sarah Foulkes abt 1805 city, Lancashire, England wife city, Cheshire
Sarah Foulkes abt 1848 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire
George Grounds abt 1828 city, Cheshire, England lodger city, Cheshire
Sarah A Grounds abt 1856 city, Cheshire, England lodger city, Cheshire

rg9/2797/37/?

Samuel Foulkes abt 1832 city, Lancashire, England head city, Cheshire
Catherine Foulkes abt 1832 city, Lancashire, England relation city, Cheshire
Samuel Foulkes abt 1855 city, Lancashire, England son city, Cheshire
Elizabeth Foulkes abt 1857 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Thomas Foulkes abt 1859 city, Lancashire, England son city, Cheshire
Emila Foulkes abt 1860 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Ann Spencer abt 1792 city, Lancashire, England lodger city, Cheshire

rg9/2797/41/? [Latchford RD=Warrington]

The second possibility is

Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
Foulkes Alice Wirral 8a 435

Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice Neston Wirral NES/18/32

I don't really go along with Peter's argument that Neston (a Deesside village) is part of Liverpool.
This Alice would be just abt 20 in 1904q4 - maybe still 19, though, and should appear on census listings as b abt 1885.

Her father is dead in 1901

John Green abt 1866 city, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
Mary Green abt 1857 city, Cheshire, England wife city, Cheshire
William Foulkes abt 1881 city, Cheshire, England stepson city, Cheshire
Alice Foulkes abt 1885 city, Cheshire, England stepdaughter city, Cheshire
Lucy Foulkes abt 1887 city, Cheshire, England stepdaughter city, Cheshire
Fred Green abt 1897 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
Flora Green abt 1898 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire

rg13/3398/59/? Birkenhead


Marriages Sep 1893 (>99%)
Elliott Philip Birkenhead 8a 859
>>Foulkes Mary Birkenhead 8a 859
>>Green John Birkenhead 8a 859
Macintosh Anna Birkenhead 8a 859

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1891 to 1895
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GREEN John FOULKES Mary Tranmere, St Paul Wirral BK18/3/42



The three Foulkes kids (and some others) were rego'ed in Neston:


Births Jun 1878 (>99%)
Foulkes John Edward Wirral 8a 473
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES John Edward Neston Wirral NES/15/42

Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
FOULKES William Wirral 8a 445
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1881
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES William Neston Wirral NES/16/61

Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
Foulkes Alice Wirral 8a 435
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice Neston Wirral NES/18/32

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
FOULKES Lucy Wirral 8a 459
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1886
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Lucy Neston Wirral NES/19/1

Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
Foulkes Herbert Wirral 8a 428
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1887
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Herbert Neston Wirral NES/19/62

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Foulkes Henry Birkenhead 8a 549
Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1890
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Henry Tranmere Wirral TRA/53/47


1891
Mary Foulkes abt 1857 city, Cheshire, England head city, Cheshire
John Foulkes abt 1878 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
Alcie Foulkes abt 1885 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Lucy Foulkes abt 1887 city, Cheshire, England daughter city, Cheshire
Herbert Foulkes abt 1888 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire
Harry Foulkes abt 1890 city, Cheshire, England son city, Cheshire

rg12/2888/100/? Sub-District 2B Tranmere Civil Parish


Unfortunately, I can't find Mary in 1881, so I can't confirm yhat she wed a Thomas.


There does appear to be a Thomas who would fit:

Marriages Dec 1878 (>99%)
FOULKES Thomas Chester 8a 593
JONES Mary Chester 8a 593
Kirkham Thomas Chester 8a 593
WRIGHT Harriet Chester 8a 593
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876 to 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FOULKES Thomas JONES Mary Chester, Civil Marriage Cheshire West ROC/15/122


Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
Foulkes Thomas 38 Birkenhead 8a 321
Cheshire Death indexes for the years: 1889
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
FOULKES Thomas 38 Tranmere Wirral TRA/28/67


However, I don't know they refer to the same Thomas, nor do I know if they've anything to do with Mary/Alice.

JEAN -
DOES ALICE'S FATHER THOMAS HAVE AN OCCUPATION ON THE M.CERT?


On the face of it, there seem to be 3 births to look at:

Births Sep 1883 (>99%)
FOULKES Alice Prestwich 8d 396

Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
Foulkes Alice Wirral 8a 435

Births Mar 1889 (>99%)
Foulkes Alice Warrington 8c 249

I think we can quickly discount the first Alice - she'ld be 21 at a 1904q4 marriage, and her dad is Peter.


1891
Peter Foulkes abt 1860 city, Lancashire, England head city, Lancashire
Jane Foulkes abt 1859 city, Lancashire, England wife city, Lancashire
Elizabeth Foulkes abt 1879 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
Fred Foulkes abt 1882 city, Lancashire, England son city, Lancashire
Alice Foulkes abt 1884 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
Annie Foulkes abt 1889 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
Samuel Foulkes abt 1891 city son city, Lancashire

rg12/3268 =Moston/Failsworth subD=Failsworth RD=Prestwich


1901
Peter Foulkes abt 1859 city, Lancashire, England head city, Lancashire
Jane Foulkes abt 1859 city, Lancashire, England wife city, Lancashire
Fred Foulkes abt 1882 city, Lancashire, England son city, Lancashire
Alice Foulkes abt 1884 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
Annie Foulkes abt 1889 city, Lancashire, England daughter city, Lancashire
Samuel Foulkes abt 1891 city, Lancashire, England son city, Lancashire

rg13/3774/92/? Moston/North Manchester subD=Failsworth RD=Prestwich

I agree with Peter ages can be wrong depending on the informant.

I have also found ages can be mistranscribed because the original writing was hard to read.

Have you checked the census image in 1911 or just the transcription?

hi peter and quinsgran thanks for your replys i have in the 1911 census alice living with her husband fredeick perrin at 79 george st hulme manchester also children florence age 5 sarah age 3 and james fredeick age1 her husband was also james frederick but always got called fred. it also gives alice's age as 22 so when she died in 1928 she would have been 38 as it says on her death certificate. she is such a mystery i cant find anything else about her thanks very much for your input and peter i will try and check out that one born 1884 tosee if her father was called thomas. thanks again for your help it is very much apreciated. thanks again. jean

What's wrong with Alice Foulkes Dec Q 1884 Wirral 8a 435 ?

Wirral is next to Birkenhead which is arguably part of Liverpool.

Ignore the age at death - it's only as good as the person giving the information.

Peter

Jean,

Since this is the 1911 and it was filled in by ordinary people not used to form-filling it contains many trivial errors. It merely means she was born in Liverpool in England and her parents were British. I have seen several examples where such errors have been corrected by the enumerator.

Peter

Who is she living with in 1911. If her parents where are they born?
Can you post us the 1911 census?
Have you found father Thomas on the 1911 census?

sorry about the delay in replying but thanks to everyone for their input. i will just have to keep plodding on to see if i can find a birth for alice foulkes anywhere. thanks again to all of you. jean

there are quite a few places called Liverpool in the USA and I think possibly also in Canada and Australia ... don't know if she could have been born in one of these

Janice,

I think they would all be too late as Alice married in 1904.

Kath. x

Any of these any use?

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1894
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice Toxteth Park Liverpool TP/365/48

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1897
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice Toxteth Park Liverpool TP/393/33

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1899
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
FOULKES Alice E Toxteth Park Liverpool TP/404/81

hi margaret and kathleen thanks for the reply's i dont know anything about grandmother i have her wedding certificate she was married in 1904 and it gives her age as 19 she died in 1928 and it gives her age as 38 so i think she was only about 14/15 when she married. i didn't have a clue where she was from, i thought i would know when the 1911 census came out, but as i said it says born liverpool british by parentage and it also says she is aged 22 in the 1911 census, so she must have been only 14/15 when she married. all i know is her name was alice foulkes father thomas, but he was deceased by the time alice married. i had been looking for a birth about 1885 but now it seems she was born about 1889/1890 i still cant find anything. so frustrating. anyway thanks to you both for replying. thanks again. jean

British by parentage means her father was British.
If this is a 1911 UK census, and Liverpool is in Lancashire, it seems an odd thing to say. Perhaps she's lost her British citizenship by marrying a foreigner.

Well I would take that to mean that she was born abroad but that her parent's were British which would give her British Nationality.

However if it gives her birthplace as Liverpool I don't quite understand it, unless her parent's just thought they had to give her nationality on the form and used this expression themselves.

Kath. x

Does anyone know what this means. I have been trying to find out where grandmother came from and thougt when the 1911 census came out it would solve my problem, but it gives her birthplace as Liverpool, then says British by parentage. hope someone can help. thanks Jean