Genealogy Chat

I would be grateful if some kind person out there would give their thoughts on this very complicated puzzle.

I have a JABUS Newton born 15th January 1806 and baptised 9th February 1806 in All Saints Church Wigan, son of Luke Newton a spinner of Scoles and his wife Jane Toyne. It also says this is the third son. This on all censuses, marriage certificate and death certificate is JABEZ.. I recently found a burial in All Saints Church Wigan of a JARVAIS aged 7 months 30th July 1806, which ties in with the January birth of JEBUS.

Tonight I looked on the new Family Search for children of Luke Newton and Jane and found amongst others, the baptism of a JOHN Newton child of Luke Newton and Jane, baptised also on the 15th January 1806. (Either a twin or born before JABUS/JARVAIS/JABEZ)

Jebez`s death certificate states his age as 59 in 1876 which means he was born in or around 1816, BUT he married in 1827 in Manchester, so this cant be right as he would have only been around 10 years old when he married.

Censuses say JABEZ was born in Wigan, anytime between 1806 and 1811.

Would it be possible for JABUS/JARVAIS/JABEZ to have died as on Online Parish Clerks and they started calling JOHN by the name of JABEZ.

We have searched all Wigan at the archives and cannot find another JABEZ and must have somehow missed JOHN if he is there.

I know this is very complicated, I have explained as best I can and would welcome any suggestions and help with this. I am still 99% convinced that my JABEZ is the son of Luke and Jane, at least I hope so as I have gone back a few generations from Luke and Jane.

Many thanks for any help and advice.

Marilyn :-S

is this your Jabez 1841

NEWTON, Jabez M 30 1811 Lancashire VIEW
NEWTON, Ann F 30 1811 Lancashire VIEW
NEWTON, Jane F 10 1831 Lancashire VIEW
NEWTON, Isaac M 6 1835 Lancashire VIEW
NEWTON, Sarah F 0 (10 months) 1841 Lancashire VIEW
NABB, Robt M 40 1801 Lancashire VIEW
STONE, Avery M 25 1816 VIEW
Piece:
569 Book/Folio:
3/35 Page:
14 Registration District:
Manchester

Civil Parish:
Manchester Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
Thompson Street, Manchester

Yes thanks Lesley, I have him in all the censuses from 1841 to 1871 as Jabez, he married an Ann Greenwood in Manchester in 1827. He died in 1876.

Got to leave computer now, will check back tomorrow, thanks again.

Marilyn

Hi Marilyn. Maybe you could you ask for help on this site

http://www.wlct.org/heritage-services/local-and-family-history.htm

We are able to offer a free 15-minute research service. More in-depth one-to-one Family History Workshops are also available on Wednesdays by arrangement at the Museum of Wigan Life or daily on a drop-in basis (subject to volunteer availability)

Contact: [email protected]

so


just looked on lancsopc ....... and found the birth of a daughter Elizabeth to Luke Newton and wife Jane.

It says Luke was a soldier???


Baptisms: 21 Jun 1801 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Elizabeth Newton - dau of Luke Newton & His Wife Jane (formerly Toine)
Born: 7 Apr 1801
Abode: Peter Street
Occupation: Soldier
Register: Baptisms 1801, Page 35, Entry 539
Source: LDS Film 93833




sylvia

John was also born on the same date:

Name: John Newton
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Feb 1806
Baptism/Christening Place: WIGAN,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 15 Jan 1806

Rose

The GRO index has

Deaths Jun 1876 (>99%)
Newton Jabez 59 Chorlton 8c 472

The image of the GRO index does say a=59, although 69 would seem more appropriate.

Since you say "Jebez`s death certificate states his age as 59", I presume you have this d.cert, and got it from the GRO in the last 20y.

The GRO only has a copy of the original registration. The local office has the original register that the unformant signed, and the local office made a copy for the GRO.
If I were you, I would call the appropriate local office and ask them if they would check the age.

In the header of the d.cert, the subdistrict is named.

Most Chorlton subdistricts' registers were transferred to Manchester.
The exceptions were Barton (to Salford) and Stretfield (to Trafford).

For contact info, see:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/regoff.html

Lesley, thanks I will try that.

Sylvia, I have Luke and Janes marriage certificate from parish records, he was in the Cheshire Militalia when he got married, so yes that is another child. I have yet to get to Liverpool though to check that out. Thanks.

Rose thanks for that useful information, where did you get the birth date for John from please.

MGNV Thanks for that info, the age of death on certificate I have is definitely 59, this is one of the certificates I purchased from the local office in Manchester as opposed to GRO and is in the original handwriting (if thats what you mean).

Thanks for all your help, it is very much appreciated.

Marilyn

Also some had many children bapt on the same day regardless of order of birth.

Marilyn ,

That information was from the Familysearch site.

Rose

Marilyn - That is what I meant, but is it in the original handwriting or is it a recent handwritten copy? The later is the case for most local offices. In fact, Birmingham is the only office I know that routinely sends images of the original records. (In England, that is - ScotlandsPeople imaged the local registers rather than those held by GROS - check out the examples at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&404
One can clearly see the informant`s signature is in a different hand - naturally excluding the minor records which were sent from the GRO.)

Anyways, if Jabez`s informant`s signature is not in a clearly different hand, I would phone the Manchester registrar, and ask them to check if the age on the original is definitely 59, and not 69.

Thank you Rose

MGNV my certificate is all in the same handwriting apart from the Deputy Superintendant Registrar, who signed the bottom of the certificate in 2008.

I will phone the local registry office when I get chance.

Thanks again

Marilyn