Genealogy Chat

A family of 2 Jewish parents and 2 children emigrated from the poorer part of London to New York in 1839. Yet they were back on the 1841 Register in Tower Hamlets.
All the family first names match those of the family I have been following, but I cannot understand why they would sail to NYork and be back in England again within 2 years.It cannot be a coincidence that all the family names (and ages)match?

could it be they were worse off in america

If you like to post the names, Sandra, we'll have a look.

PM from Sandra:

Hello again, ArgyllGran
Abrahams family members= Mark(s), Phoebe, Solomon and Morris.
They arrived on the "Montreal",at New York, 14/8/1839.
1841, they are back at Spittalfields
Mark(s),age 30-34 (said to be born Ireland, but can find no trace)
Phoebe, age 25-30
Solmon, age 8
Morris, age 5
Good Luck!
Sandra



For our reference:


Marks Abrahams
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Marks Abrahams
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Christ Church Spitalfields
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Spitalfields
Neighbors:
Piece: 710
Book: 6
Folio: 25
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Marks Abrahams 30
Pheoby Abrahams 25
Soloman Abrahams 8
Morris Abrahams 5
Rebecca Abrahams 3
Caroline Abrahams 1

All except Marks were born in Middlesex, per the census - not necessarily correct.




S. Abraham
in the New York, Passenger and Immigration Lists, 1820-1850
Name: S. Abraham
Arrival date: 14 Aug 1839
Age: 5
Gender: M (Male)
Port of Arrival: New York
Port of Departure: London
Place of Origin: Great Britain
Destination: United States of America
Ship: Ship Montreal
Microfilm Serial Number: M237
Microfilm Roll Number: 39
List Number: 575

Travelling with M Abraham 30; Phoebe Abraham 24; Morris Abraham 3.

Births Jun 1839

Abraham Caroline Eliza Whitechapel 2 518

ABRAHAMS, REBECCA MYERS
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 184

1851 census

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Name: Rebecca Abrahams
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Botolph Aldgate
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: East London
Sub-registration district: St Botolph
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 137
Piece: 1524
Folio: 23
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Levy Myers 68
Sarah Myers 64
Rebecca Abrahams 12

The births posted above for Rebecca and Caroline can't both be for the correct family

Both in June qr 1839,in different parts of London.

There's also this Caroline - with same mms as Rebecca posted by Shirley, but again in same quarter of 1839, so not a sister of that Rebecca:

ABRAHAMS, CAROLINE mms MYERS
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST) IN THE COUNTY OF MIDDLE Volume 02 Page 88

Other Carolines:

ABRAHAMS, CAROLINE mms HART
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in CITY OF LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 139

ABRAHAMS, CAROLINE MATILDA mms CHELLERS
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in OF THE HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 146

This is the one posted by Gwyn:

ABRAHAM, CAROLINE ELIZA mms KITSTON
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in THE WHITECHAPEL UNION Volume 02 Page 518


IF Rebecca in the 1841 census was actually born in Middlesex in 1839, then it couldn't be the same family as the one which went to New York - but the 1841 census isn't reliable for accurate info.

Other than that, I agree the two families look pretty much identical.

But can't prove it so far!

Have you found the family in later censuses, Sandra?

PM from Sandra (have advised her to add replies to her thread):


Death of Phoebe, 1843. Death of Mark/s, 1844

1851, Caroline and Rebecca are in the "Jews Orphan School", Whitechapel.
Rebecca, 12, is at St. Botolphs, living with her Grandparents, Levi & Sarah Myers.

It is actually Morris I am trying to trace. He married in Australia, at the age of 20, at Melbourne, but I cannot find any details of his emigration or arrival anywhere in Australia,nor of his place of abode in 1851. He must have emigrated before 1856, but would have been very young to have gone alone, unless transported.
Sandra



So 1851 posted by Shirley is correct - if you're sure Levy and Sarah were parents of Phoebe. (Although, you say Rebecca was with her grandparents, but also with Caroline at the orphans' school.)


The deaths you suggest for Phoebe and Mark can't be correct.

The Phoebe who died in 1843 was 55

ABRAHAMS, PHOEBE 55
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST) Volume 02 Page 58

And the Mark Abrahams death was of a 3-year-old child:

ABRAHAMS, MARK 3
GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 150

??? This is the Caroline you mean at the Orphans' school - but no siblings with her, and age doubtful ??

Caroline Abraham
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Caroline Abraham
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 1546
Folio: 124
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Josshon Franklin 36
Jessy Franklin 32
Frances Daniel Franklin 10
Abraham Franklin 8
Phebe Franklin 8
Catherine Murrey 22
Joseph Simmons 15
Simone Phillips 11
Abraham Cohen 11
John Lyons 10
Isaac Cohen 7
Israel Soloman 11
David Solomons 9
Israel Cohen 11
Emanuel Cohen 5
Meyer Levy 11
Jacob Cohen 10
Simon Harris 11
Mario Solomon 7
Michael Ruphal 6
Joel Lyons 7
Philip Crabbe 5
Ellen Cowley 24
Betty Wyans 16
Henkuk Phillips 10
Leah Joel 14
Dinuh Joel 12
Caroline Abraham 12
Sarah Abraham 40 - 10 on image
Catherine Cohen 10
Rachel Crabbe 10
Isgace Franklin 8

correction to 1851 census:-
Caroline, 12 and Sarah, 10, are in the "Jews Orphan Scool"
Rebecca, 12, is at Stoney Lane, St Botolphs, with grandparents

I don't see Sarah's birth.


Maybe a possibility for Morris in 1851 - though age is a few years out;


Morris Abraham
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Morris Abraham
[Morris Abrahams]
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Spittafield, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Christchurch Spitalfields
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Artillery
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 53
Piece: 1543
Folio: 665
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Franks 58
Sarah Franks 53
Joseph Franks 22
Samuel Franks 21
Abraham Franks 20
Tilton Franks 19
Maris Cohan 44
Morris Abraham 22 - tailor.