Genealogy Chat

You were right, I called my mother and it says Leonard Joseph Fry in his name part, so he would be Leonard Joseph Fry Nicholls! Finally I may be able to move on with this now ;)

Sorry I didn't get back before but I was up so late last night that I only just got up lol I don't actually have the birth cert, my mother does, I will need to ask her about the name fry beiong on the birth cert, maybe I just auto wrote it because that is who I knew him as. But youre right they dont list a surname for the baby normally. Also didnt think about the other scenarios, esp Mr Nicholls being called up which back then is very very passible. Thanks for the tips guys, I have a few things I can try now ;)

mmmmmmmmm what hits me straight away is this scenario.... elizabeth born 1881 elizabeth marries 1902 aged 21 to Mr Nichols. WW1 -Mr nichols is called up aged 33( my rellie was called up even older) Mr Nicholls is killed She still has that married name after the war but ....etc.

Possible birth & 1901 census... Births Dec 1881 MADDERN Elizabeth Jane Penzance 5c 257 Joseph Gilbert abt 1873 Phillack, Cornwall, England Boarder Phillack Cornwall Bessie Maddern abt 1885 St Erth, Cornwall, England Daughter Phillack Cornwall Caroline Maddern abt 1879 St Erth, Cornwall, England Daughter Phillack Cornwall Charles Maddern abt 1888 St Erth, Cornwall, England Son Phillack Cornwall Elizabeth J Maddern abt 1882 St Erth, Cornwall, England Daughter Phillack Cornwall Helen Maddern abt 1852 Lelant, Cornwall, England Wife Phillack Cornwall Richard J Maddern abt 1852 Lelant, Cornwall, England Head Phillack Cornwall John Richards abt 1842 Tennor, Cornwall, England Boarder Phillack Cornwall Source information: RG13/2245 Registration district: Redruth Sub-registration district: Phillack ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Folio: 10 Page: 11 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 61 Georgina.

I think you need Elizabeth's marriage cert as it will give her age and thus you can find her on 1901 census. If she married for the first time in 1902 and had a child in 1923, she must have been a more mature mum. I would imagine there were other children born before Leonard. nell

found this marriage Marriage Jul-Sep 1902 Penzance 5c 392 Maddern Elizabeth Nicholls William Henry (just those 2 on page) That should give you her father's name. You may need it as there are several Elizabeth Madderns in west Cornwall

A few more thoughts. As Leonard WAS known as Fry perhaps his father stuck around, I'd have thought if dad disappeared off the scene he would have continued to use his mother's surname. Perhaps she wasn't free to marry dad when Leonard was born, but maybe later - try looking for a marriage between Elizabeth Jane Nicholls and a Fry AFTER Leonard's birth, perhaps years later. Another possibility would be to see who was registered to vote at the address where she was living when Leonard was born -to see if Mr Fry was living there too. The electoral registers should be at nearest large library to Penzanze.

yes, the birth is in the GRO index under Leonard J.F. Nicholls

Birth certificates only give forenames for the baby in column2 headed name, if any . The child then takes surname from parent(s) surname in column 4 or 5. Are you saying the names Leonard Thomas Fry all appeared in column 2? The father of an illegitimate child could only be named on the certificate if he attended the register office and signed with the mother so it looks as if mum gave him his father's surname as a third forename, so that he could later drop his 'official' surname and be known as a Fry.

Absence of the father's name from the birth certificate often indicated illegitimacy. Don't know what you might be able to find for someone born in the 20th century, since as far as I know bastardy bonds/orders had more or less died out by then.

My grandfather was called Leonard Joseph Fry, born 13/5/1923. His mother was called Elizabeth Jane Nicholls (Nee maddern) He is a fry on his birth cert, yet she is a nicholls. He was born in Penzance Cornwall. I am fining it really hard to dind her The father part of the birth cert just has a line though it Any advice appreciated