Genealogy Chat

Hi I have been told that one of my ancestors 'sold his vote' and had to get out of town quick. This was in Totnes, Devon, and would have been between 1871 and 1881. Can anyone explain what this means? Is there any significant event in Totnes that would have required selling your vote? Any help greatly appreciated. Pam

I'm no authority, Olde Crone might be better placed to help, but I imagine this means he was paid to vote for a particular candidate. Many Victorian men who had employees able to vote 'bought' the votes to return the candidate they wanted. Presumably your ancestor voted the wrong way and incurred the wrath of someone of influence in the town. nell

Thanks Nell I suspected it might be something like that, and I'd love to know the details - not finding anything of note by googling. Thanks again, Pam

Hello Pam Totnes was notorious for political corruption in the 19th century. If you post his name I may be able to tell you more about an individual and what he got up to. Best wishes Bob.

Good Morning Pam Am at the moment doing this as a part of my history A-level (mature student) have to speak to my tutor today will ask him because I vaguely remeber him saying something about Rotton districts also look in my notes. Will PM you later tonight should I get some info for you. Clare

During the time period mentioned Totnes was classed as a rotton borough. Rotton boroughs were exactly what they said they were rotton ie corrupt (another rotton borough was Devonport). To have the vote during this time you had to be male, and a landowner, gentry or head of a household & over 21. Votes could easily be bought by employers & landowners who were themselves standing or had a particular canidate they supported. Often people were happy for money to sell there vote as money for the majority of people during this time was tight. It was of course everyone's right to say no to selling their vote but often it was their employer or landlord asking thus putting extra pressure on them. As for why your ancestor left the town mmm could be because he took the money then didn't vote as he said he would or that he took money from more than one person. i think though with this it will be more down to speculation as to why. I hope this background helps. Clare

Hi Bob and Clare Thank you for the information - I spent last evening googling for any political stuff for the period in Totnes - but didn't even get that it was a Rotten Borough! The rellie in question is Thomas Kinsman, Baker, b. abt 1838 (some censuses have him born Scotland, but he is clearly from a Totnes family). There is a family tale that he moved to Liverpool from Totnes because he sold his vote - this would have been between the 1871 and 1881 censuses. Have to do husband's dinner now (it's 7 pm here), but will be back on later. Many thanks again, Pam

Hi, I'm back - we've also had a terrific electric storm so had to disconnect 'puter. As I said previously, I'm grateful for any information on the subject. Thanks, Pam

Hello I doubt that Thomas was drummed out of Totnes for selling his vote, he was quite small fry compared to some, however there are five Kinsmans mentioned in the “Commission to Enquire into the Existence of Corrupt Practices at the Last Election and on former similar occasions”. Held in 1866. Before we condemn anyone for selling a vote we need to understand that men were being offered the equivalent of a years salary for it. Bearing in mind that in Totnes each voter had two votes. So sell one and keep your conscience by using the other for your preferred candidate. Just consider what that means in todays terms. Totnes was quite probably one of the most rotten of “Rotten Boroughs”. A lot more corrupt practices were being practised than just the simple exchange of cash. Indeed it is possible to argue that creating and milking elections became a major industry in Totnes from the passing of the “Great Reform Bill” until the “Bribery Commission” finally called a halt to it. I will PM you with the details if you wish. Best wishes Bob

Oh yes please Bob, I'd love you to PM some more information. I'm particularly interested in the five Kinsmans mentioned, as I've loads in my tree. Thank you so much for your help. Pam

Bob I've PM'd you with my email address, if it is easier for you. Again, many thanks, Pam