Genealogy Chat

Um, I think you mean the birth cert for John? I hope it is the right one. If he was illegitimate of course, his father might not be named on the cert. But at least you'd have his mother's name and could try to find out where she is on the census. Fingers crossed!

Thanks Nell, The 1861/1851 match seems to tie up but do you think this could be the Thomas on the marriage certificate for John Thomas in 1874? I have ordered the birth cert, for Thomas - might this give more clues? Thanks Chris

Looking at GRO birth index images on Ancestry for possible birth, there's Wheeler, John Thomas 1853 Jun Gloster [sic] 6a p.233 nell

This appears to be the only candidate for 1861 prisoner in 1851: Cheltenham Gloucestershire William B Wheeler abt 1799 Poulton,Wiltshire, Head Mary Wheeler abt 1808 Winchomt, Gloucestershire, Wife >>>Thomas Wheeler abt 1834 Cheltenham, , Son Sarah Ann Wheeler abt 1837 Cheltenham Daughter Elizabeth Cary abt 1801 Winchomt, Gloucestershire, Lodger John Cas Wadalinder abt 1801 Luellor, Shropshire, Lodger Looked at the image and interestingly, William B Wheeler was a journeyman stonemason. Fairly certain that Mary Wheeler and Elizabeth Cary were born in Winchcomb, not that wierd place Ancestry have invented. HO107/1973 Folio: 498 Page: 16 Registration district: Cheltenham Sub-registration district: Cheltenham ED, institution, or vessel: 1r

Details for Thomas are from marriage certificate Chris

Trouble is that John and Thomas are very common names and Wheeler isn't that unusual. That could be the right chap in prison. Perhaps John's parents didn't marry, or maybe the unmarried bit was a mistake by the prison authorities. nell

Can't see him. Have you got the info about Thomas from John's wedding cert or do you have John's birth cert? If its the wedding cert its possible John was illegitimate and Thomas was made up for respectability. It's also possible Thomas died before 1861 and John would be with his mother or other relatives, but I can't find him. I've tried all Johns born Gloucestershire +/- a year of 1853 whose surname might be a mistranscription for Wheeler but can;t find him. nell

Thanks Nell and good luck. I have found a Thomas Wheeler Stone Mason listed as a criminal prisoner on 1861 census in Gloucester - pace of birth Cheltenham Gloucester - but he is 27 and unmarried. Could this be right???? Chris

The key to this is to find John and Thomas together on the 1861 census and then find Thomas in 1851. I am looking now. nell

Trying to find census info for Thomas Wheeler a Stone Mason (Journeyman) - he is the father of a John Thomas Wheeler - John Thomas married Fanny Bond in Cheltenham in 1874 (Thomas is listed as father on marriage cert - John Thomas was born in 1853 in Gloucester and was 21 when he married - I'm therefore guessing that Thomas was born in around 1823 plus or minus 10 yrs. I'm also assuming Thomas was in the Gloucestershire area at this time. I have details for John Thomas for all Census from 1871 onwards (but not 1861 - other GRs have also kindly tried but with no luck) but haven't found his father Thomas on census records as yet. Any info gratefully recieved. Thanks Chris