Genealogy Chat

I have two of these bonds for ancestors who died intestate. One dated 1767, the other dated 1847, both were dealt with at the Durham court. The earlier one refers to a 'penal sum of forty pounds', the later one to a 'penal sum of eight thousand pounds'. That sounds a bit like a fine of some sort. But why would a fine be involved? Can someone enlighten me? is there a web site that might help, or a book? This hobby doesn't get any easier, does it! Moira.

Google 'Administration bonds' - not administrative! - and there are a couple of sites explaining how they work, but I can't actually find any info about penal sums. nell

This is 'Old Crone' territiory , she'll know... She doesnt usually appear until later, will point her in your direction when she pops in Alice

Got this from Googling:- Administration Bond It is the duty of either an executor or administrator to gather in the assets of a deceased's estate, settle the debts and distribute the remainder to the beneficiaries. In the absence of a will, an Administration Bond is required. This is a guarantee to the court that the Executor/Administrator will undertake proper care in fulfilling these obligations. Kath. x p.s. I would imagine that the sums you mention, were what was left of the person's estate, once all debts had been paid.

Olde Crone is here! How flattering to be thought to know - and I do! The sums of money mentioned in an Administration Bond are a threat, not a fine. In other words, 'if you dont get a move on and do this properly and quickly, we will lose patience with you and you will jolly well have to pay us X amount'. Very similar to the Taxman today - if he thinks you are dragging your heels, or attempting to conceal your assets, he plucks a high figure out of the air and tells you that is what you owe him. It is then up to you to convince him that you don't. The Administration Bond was often a formaility, not an indication that people were mucking about. The Church and State were very anxious to ensure that they came in for their dibs, as they very often did if someone died intestate - and still do today. If you do not make a Will in Cornwall today, then most of your loot goes to Prince Charles. There is a similar scheme in Lancashire. Olde Crone

OC, you have just reminded me, the Loyal Toast in Lancashire is 'The Queen - Duke of Lancaster' Being born a true Lancashire lass, I do sometimes wind people up saying that, now I'm an ex-pat (Yorkshire)

I looked for this thread to bring it to your attention, Crone when i noticed you about earlier 'saying your bit' on another thread - i knew you'd know!!

I am a Lancashire lass too - we moved away and then back again when I was a child and I remember my father being absolutely INCANDESCENT with rage when he found out that, should he not make a Will, the Duchy of Lancaster would get it all, except a small pittance for my mother during her lifetime. 'Havent they got enough b****y money?' he roared. The Church also was entitled to some of this money, depending on exactly where you lived in Lancashire. As the Church boundaries included large parts of Yorkshire in their domain, you were stuffed there, too! Olde Crone

Olde Crone How lovely to have words like 'incandescent' bandied about. On the subject of (non) Wills, when my uncle died intestate, I had to swear before a solicitor that my other uncles and my father were my other uncles and my father. No proof was required. I thought that if we were all in a scam to get our hands on his loot, this would be a jolly good wheeze. nell

Thank you so much for all the help and advice, things are a little clearer now. Old Crone how did you become so knowledgable? I don't even know where to look for most of the information I need! Moira.

Moira A mis-spent youth, lurking around in libraries reading, instead of helping my mum with the dusting! Olde Crone