Genealogy Chat

I know it stands fro Esquire but what does that mean in regards to a name? eg Thomas Martin Esq.? suzie

Only certain people are able to use the term Esquire, one of these we think are solicitors, or possibly only barristers. Not totally sure, there are probably others - try asking the people who do crests and coats of arms, can't think of their proper name, could be something to do with Heraldry. Not much use really, too late at night Eileen

LOL what dya mean too late? It midday!!!! LOL yeah this guy must have been a solicitor, not my family though they like to be Labourers! GGGRRRRR LOL

Suzie I remember my Dad using the 'Esq' and being sent letters with it back in the 1950/60s. As far as he is aware it just meant 'Gentleman' as in male of the species and not a man of wealth. Dad would know...He was never a man of wealth but was always Esq when he had letters from his Bankers :) Chris

Well back in the good old days -1950's and 60's, I was a secretary, and I always used the term Esq. when writing a letter to a male customer, i.e: To: John Smith Esq., I think it was just a polite way of showing respect. Audrey

This is from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire): Esquire (abbreviated Esq.) was originally a social rank above that of mere gentleman, allowed, for example, to the sons of nobles and gentry who did not possess any other title. A gentleman, on this basis, was designated Mr (before his name) whereas an Esquire was so designated (with no prefix before the name) after his name. A very late example of this distinction can be seen in the list of subscribers to The History of Elton by the Rev. Rose Fuller Whistler, published in 1882, which clearly distinguishes between subscribers designated 'Mr' and those, of higher social position, designated 'Esquire'. But even then this was somewhat old-fashioned. Today in the USA the term refers to both men and women who have finished law school, taken the bar exam, and passed the bar exam. Just finishing law school means one is a JD — Juris Doctor. But passing the bar exam means one is an Esquire. This is a remnant of the United Kingdom practice, in which barristers claimed the status of Esquire, but many others did as well. United Kingdom In the United Kingdom (and, before the Act of Union, in England), tables of precedence were from time to time drawn up and they invariably ended, for men, with the ranks of Esquire and Gentleman in that order. From time to time, attempts were made formally to define those entitled to the rank of Esquire, as opposed to Gentleman. A typical definition is as follows: The eldest sons of knights and their eldest sons in perpetual succession The eldest sons of younger sons of peers and their eldest sons in perpetual succession Those who bear special office in the Royal Household Sheriffs while in office. Justices of the Peace while in commission Commissioners of the Court of Bankruptcy Masters of the Supreme Court Deputy Lieutenants and Commissioners of Lieutenancy Queen's Counsel Sergeants-at-law (of whom none have been appointed since the 19th century) Royal Academicians Officers of the Royal Navy with rank of Lieutenant or higher, of the Army with rank of Captain or higher, or of the Royal Air Force with rank of Flight Lieutenant or higher Bachelors of Divinity, Law, or Physic, and others (note that these are all traditionally post-graduate degrees, not first degrees). Persons to whom the title is granted by the Monarch However, formal definitions such as these were proposed because there was, in reality, no fixed criterion distinguishing those designated 'Esquire': it was essentially a matter of impression as to whether a person qualified for this status. William Segar, Garter King of Arms (the senior officer of arms at the College of Arms), wrote in 1602: 'And who so can make proofe, that his Ancestors or himselfe, haue had Armes, or can procure them by purchase, may be called Armiger or Esquier.' Honor military, and ciuill (1602; lib. 4, cap. 15, p. 228). The use of Esquire (as Esq.) had become pervasive in the United Kingdom by the late 20th century, for example being applied by banks to all men who did not have a grander title. Although the College of Arms continues to restrict use of the word Esquire in official grants of arms to some (not even all) of those in the table above, it uses the term Esquire in all its correspondence, even to those who do not fall within any of the definitions in the table. It is likely that most people in the United Kingdom no longer appreciate that there is any distinction between 'Mr' and 'Esquire' at all and so, for practical purposes and in everyday usage, there is no such distinction. United States In the United States, it is the title of office ('style') commonly used by lawyers who passed the bar exam, and is often used in the superscription of letters instead of Mr. or Ms., for example 'George P. Burdell, Esq.'. Historically in the UK, barristers-at-law used this title, while solicitors used the term 'gentleman'. In the U.S., where the roles of counsel and attorney were combined, the term 'esquire' was adopted. There is some largely academic controversy over the title of 'esquire' and how it relates to the so-called missing thirteenth amendment of the United States Constitution.

From www.thefreedictionary(.)com: es·quire (skwr, -skwr) n. 1. A man or boy who is a member of the gentry in England ranking directly below a knight. 2. Abbr. Esq. Used as an honorific usually in its abbreviated form, especially after the name of an attorney or a consular officer: Jane Doe, Esq.; John Doe, Esq. 3. In medieval times, a candidate for knighthood who served a knight as an attendant and a shield bearer. 4. Archaic An English country gentleman; a squire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Middle English esquier, from Old French escuier, from Late Latin sctrius, shield bearer, from Latin sctum, shield; see skei- in Indo-European roots.]

it depends on the period and the context, but in practice a man called Esq in say 1600-1800 was the lord of a manor, or had equivalent wealth, whereas a man called Mr was anybody else who didn't have to work for a living (ordinary people were never Mr then). But Esq was only used in formal address -- Jane Austen's Mr Bennet and Mr Darcy were Esq on their letters, and this wasn't just politeness or sucking-up then, it was the proper title for their station, but they were called Mr most of the time. Officially you weren't supposed to use either Esq or Mr without the approval of the heralds (the titles were linked with using a coat of arms). You got the approval by proving your pedigree or by handing over a wodge of cash (pocketed by the herald). The heralds toured the country reading out lists of people who were ordered to cease and desist from calling themselves Esq or Mr because they hadn't produced a pedigree and had refused to pay the bribe, but nobody took much notice. So official statements don't line up with reality. Standards slipped in the 19th century. But before about 1900 you'd still expect a man who was generally called Esq (not just by banks and tradesmen wanting his business) to be mock-gentry -- a man of affairs with a few servants (cook, coachman, gardener, not liveried footmen and under-parlourmaids) and the sort of house to accommodate the servants and invite gentry to dinner

When I started work in a bank in 1983 we always used ''Esq.'' when addressing envelopes to male customers. This was because it was deamed that only people of a certain rank would have a bank account!! As others have written above, further back in time esquire was the next social class above gentleman: a gentleman being someone who did not work but lived on the income from investments, but is a fairly modest way ( think large detatched house, housemaid, kitchen maid and cook, but no butler...........Esq = butler and small mansion!! LOL) But by the time I am talking about in the 1980's, Esq was a courtesy title for those who were not working class. So all our bank customers were considered to be professional people and therefore elligible for this courtesy title! About a year or so after this I went on a course and the trainer said, ''Some of you MAY remember when we used to use ''Esq'' When I pointed out that we still did in the branch where I worked, she was horrifed!!! Not long after this our manager retired and we moved into the late 20th century! Merry

wow thank you all! i think in this case its because this dude was a barrister in the 1800's. Such interesting reading though! Am trying to find a connection with a visitation as we have a crest. suzie

I echo Merry - Esq was used as an honorary title when writing to someone until the 1980s, when Britain went American. In one office where I worked, doing debt collection, letters to people owing money were always addressed to 'Mr', not to Esq - a subtle little put-down, implying that Mr was not an honorable gentleman! Olde Crone