Genealogy Chat

Emma Adelaide Abbott born 13th March 1857, Dove Lane, Ipswich (St Helens) – Mother Mary Ann Abbott – Father blank Emma Smith married William Hawes (my Gt Gt Grandfather) 17th March 1881 in Spalding, Lincs. He was aged 23, she was 22. His Father Charles Hawes deceased was a Hawker and her father was John Smith a Coal Porter. Found Emma and William on the 1881, 1891 & 1901 Census and am fine with this info – have even found their joint grave and headstone confirms Emma’s full name and birth year. Backtracking though has been tricky. Found Emma Smith on 1861 Census, in the right district (St Helens, Ipswich) with father John a coal porter and mother Mary, but it has her as aged 13, therefore born c1848. Thought maybe it had been recorded incorrectly so looked up 1851 census and she is definitely born in 1848 as she appears there as well. I have looked everywhere for her and her family pre 1881 and this was the closest I have got. Everything fits except the birth date it is 10 years out!! I’ve spent hours trawling through the census and cannot find anything else even vaguely fitting. I’ve checked for Emma Abbott and Emma Smith and am frustrated that I cannot find her. What am I doing wrong? Where do I go from here? They seem to have disappeared!! Help!! Kind regards, Lisa :-(

Did you look at the image as some what is on the image is not the same as transcribed. Sue

how do you know that Emma Abbott is the Emma Smith who married William Hawes?

Hi Sue, I checked the image and the transcription is definitely correct. Hi Little Caz, Through family and knowledge we already have, we definitely know that Emma Adelaide Abbott is correct. I did however have some difficulty in locating the marriage of William Hawes and Emma Abbott. Through the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census I knew they had a son Arthur born in Spalding in 1879. I got his birth certificate and his mothers name was Emma Hawes formerly Smith. On his brother Henry’s birth certificate his mother is Emma Hawes formerly Abbott – so she keeps alternating between names – likewise for her other children. Through this info I was able to find a marriage between William Hawes and Emma Smith in Spalding, Lincs in 1881. Again the information against what we already know is so close. We know that the Hawes family were Hawkers or Gypsies as Granny calls them and they moved around a lot. Granny also confirmed that Smiths and Abbotts are definitely on that side of the family – so hence my frustration at not being able to find them. As mentioned before I have found them as a married unit but as soon as I have tried to look up the families individually on the 1871 and 1861 census they have disappeared. I’m at a loss as to what to try next. I have all William and Emma’s childrens birth certificates, their marriage certificate and Emma’s birth certificate although I have as yet to find Williams birth. Thanks for your comments, Lisa

Have you seen this one (1871)? Emly Abbott abt 1862 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Daughter Ipswich Trinity Suffolk >>Emma Abbott abt 1860 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Daughter Ipswich Trinity Suffolk George Abbott abt 1864 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Son Ipswich Trinity Suffolk Gorge Abbott abt 1838 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Head Ipswich Trinity Suffolk John Abbott abt 1869 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Son Ipswich Trinity Suffolk >> Mary Ann Abbott abt 1837 Hadleigh, Suffolk, England Wife Ipswich Trinity Suffolk hhmm 1861 has George and Mariam Abbott (image looks like Mariann), with son George (1858), who I assume died, before 1864. Probably not yours then .......

I think I am VERY brave geting involved with these people again!!!! What about these people in 1861??????????????????? Emma A Abbot abt 1847 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Daughter Ipswich St Clement Suffolk Mariam Abbot abt 1837 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Head Ipswich St Clement Suffolk On the census page Emma A is only 4 not 14!! ''Mariam'' (not at all sure what it really says) is unmarried. Merry

Hi Christine, I have already looked at that entry but whilst elements fit my concern was that whilst it ties in with Emmas birth certificate it didn't mention the Smith surname. This is mentioned on some of her childrens birth certificates. The marriage certificate also mentions her father as John Smith and not George Abbott. Also following them through to the 1881 census it has Emma still living with her parents but we know she was in Norfolk with her husband William and their children at that time. Thanks for taking the time to look anyway!! Kind regards, Lisa

Hi Merry, Your posting looks quite promising, I'm going to look into it further. Have you looked these people up before?? I can't remember if I've posted a request before or not!! lol - They are certainly giving me the run around!! lol Thanx again, Lisa

I'm pretty sure that is the right mother and daughter I posted from 1861. In 1871 there's no one with the name Abbot* who fit the earlier names, so would guess Emma's mum married John Smith between 1861 and 1871. There is this couple who could fit (and plenty of Emma Smith's born in Ipswich as servants around the place!) 1871: John Smith abt 1837 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Head Ipswich St Margaret Suffolk Maria Smith abt 1837 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Wife Ipswich St Margaret Suffolk he's not a coal porter though.....he's a moulder. Merry

I don't think the 1871 couple are right as he is still a Moulder in 1881. Yes, you have definitely posted about them before.....I remember them in 1881 with the little boy and all the hassel over another lady called Emma Adelaide Abbott who married someone else around the same time as yours........Aaaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! LOL merry

Thanx Merry.... Yes I remember posting previously now you mention it!!! lol - I remember the discussion of the 'other' Emma Adelaide Abbott. Still on their trail......I haven't got any further and am desperate!! lol Thanks for looking..... again!!! Lisa