Genealogy Chat

Again, thanks David for going to all this trouble on my behalf. Unable to remember this morning, the name of wife of other Charles in 1841 census. This was found for me by BedsFHS from fische Feb this year. Something like Sarah or Hannah and they lived in Houghton REgis, Beds. I couldn't find Charles on 41 census, although hard to see on film - I also regret I didn't look at the Beds villages - I had eye strain and headache by then! I THINK the Charles, Eliza, James & Frederick (although Fred is another problem as had Snoxell by his name in 51 census and there were Snoxells living next door) are the ones I am looking for and if they are I THINK again that another Thomas 63 & Elizabeth 57 SCRIVNOR on 41 census are also the parents. The baptism at the Parish Church I found - and the only one I found for a Charles - is for Charles son of Thomas and Elizabeth 1824. Thomas & Elizabeth were married in 1814. I may just follow up the Thomas & Hannah you found and check if they had a Charles, etc. Perhaps I am trying too hard and deep but I do want to trace the correct family. As I said previou - looking for the surname of Scrivener the transcriptions range from the sublime to the rediculous. Even found it under Perivuer and 1901 is Serwcuer. Also believe it was Scribner & Screbner. Thanks again for help - nice to have another pair of eyes. Maureen

Hi Maureen In 1861 there’s the following RG9/1012 folio 67B Limbury, Luton James Charles Scrivener Servant unmarr 16 Farm servant born Luton In household of John Cook 52 farmer of 597 acres This is possibly the James Charles Scrivener on the IGI born 16 Jan 1844 christened 22 Apr 1849 at Luton, son of Lucy Scrivener, so he may have been illegitimate, but he doesn’t seem to be your James. (there was a Lucy 15 dau of Matthew and Ann in Biscott in 1841) The other James that I found in 1861 which seems more likely is: RG9/1012 folio 56 Pirton Farm, Leagrave, Luton James Scrivener (indexed Sevener) Servant unmarr 16 horsekeeper b Luton One of the Scrivener families in Biscott in 1841 was HO107/004-16 folio 4A Thomas Scrivener 50 ag lab Born in county Elizabeth Scrivener 40 born in county Sophia Scrivener 20 Straw plaiter born in county Hannah Scrivener 11 born in county Richard Scrivener 8 born in county Ages over 15 in 1841 were rounded down to the nearest 5 below so 20 would have been 20-24. I’ve just had another look at 1871 – James was actually married then, not unmarried as I thought yesterday. Was his wife Emily? There is an Emily married age 21 living with them although she is shown as daughter rather than dau in law, but there is no daughter Emily in earlier censuses. If she was the wife of James, that links him firmly with Charles and Eliza who also had a son Frederick living with them in 1871/61/51 and Alfred in 1861/51. You say that you’ve found another Charles born 1825 with son James born 1845 – have you got details as I can’t see them? Unless this other Charles’ wife was also Eliza, I think the 1843 marriage is the right one. But of course it doesn’t link Charles with the Thomas and Elizabeth above in 1841. What abode does the 1824 baptism entry show – Biscott or simply Luton? If it’s Biscott then that coupled with the 1871 census where Charles gives his birthplace as Biscott is fairly conclusive. Who was the mother on the baptism entry? Elizabeth? The Beds 1841 census is available from Stepping Stones – I’ve looked at Leagrave, East and West Hyde but cannot see him. Bear in mind though that it is likely to be indexed shortly on Ancestry. Hope this helps David

David. I forgot to mention - you won't find Charles under Scrivener on the 1871 census. Bad transcription. You will find it under Stevener. I have been amazed at all the different transcriptions over all the census and very often just put in the christian name and trawl through the lot. Maureen

David. Thanks. I did send for the marriage cert for a Charles- married to Eliza 1843 Luton Parish Church. Fathers name Thomas. Unfortunately Scrivener and the like was a Beds surname, so there are many. As said previous I have only found two Charles, both in the vacinity of Biscott/Limbury. Both the correct age and both with a son called James, correct age. Although I have purchased the one marriage cert, I would like to be 100% certain I have picked the correct Charles. I have also sent to the Luton Reg Off. and GRO for the birth cert of my James (who I am sure of) and they are unable to find - doubtful if the birth was registered. It is because of the absence of this birth certificate that I have the problem. In the 1861 census I can find A Charles Scrivener, wife Eliza & family but am agaun unable to find James. As they were Ag Labs I would think he may be away - he did in fact marry a girl from Braughing, Herts in 1870. However, it is the Charles and backwards that I have the problem and don't want to waste time tracing the wrong line. I haven't found a Charles, Luton on the IGI (I have looked) but I did find his baptism in 1824 at the Beds REcord Office, which means that not every name was entered on the IGI. I feel that I don't know which way to 'turn' now. Does anyone know if there is a CD out for Beds 1841 census yet? My deepest thanks for any help given and still forthcoming. Maureen

Sorry, pressed the wrong button before I had finished. The NBI has a burial of Charles Scrivner aged 14 months at Harpenden on 25 Sept 1825, so I think you can rule out the Charles that Elly found. Where is the other Charles b 1824/5 with son James 6 living in 1851? Regards David

Hi Maureen In 1871 the Charles living in Luton age 46 with wife Eliza and son James 26, gave his birthplace as Biscott. I've looked at the hamlet of Limbury cum Biscott in Luton in 1841 but there's no sign of Charles. A number of other Scriveners, but no Charles. He had possibly moved away from his parents so even if you found him somewhere in Luton in 1841 it may not be much help in identifying his parents. Are you confident that this family in Luton is your Charles? If so have you got the marriage cert/ checked the parish register which will give you the father's name, who you should hopefully find in 1841? Prior to 1866 Limbury cum Biscott was a hamlet in the parish of Luton St Mary, and the parish register for this period has been extracted onto the IGI and as you have found, there's no sign of Charles.

Elly. Many thanks for reply. Have looked on Family Search IGI and not there - only a marriage of a Charles to an Eliza Young. That is what I am trying to prove - that this is MY Charles Scrivener/Scrivenor. I have found this Charles on 1851 census but until I am sure of my Charles I am unable to trace correct parents. Whils't you did find one correct age, I am almost positive that he was born in LUTON, Beds. In 51 census there is two Charles's with a son named James age 6. My Charles had a son named James also 6. This is the problem. Thanks Maureen.

Maureen Have you tried IGI? 1. ELIZA SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 12 MAR 1826 Harpenden, Hertford, England 2. CATHARINE SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 05 JUN 1842 Harpenden, Hertford, England 3. SOPHIA SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 27 JUL 1817 Harpenden, Hertford, England 4. MARY ANN SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 03 MAR 1822 Harpenden, Hertford, England 5. ROSE SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 23 OCT 1831 Harpenden, Hertford, England 6. LUCY SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Harpenden, Hertford, England 7. HENRY BUNN SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 NOV 1845 Harpenden, Hertford, England 8. SUSAN SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 30 MAR 1834 Harpenden, Hertford, England 9. CHARLES SCRIVENOR - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 24 OCT 1824 Harpenden, Hertford, England 10. CHARLES SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 31 OCT 1841 Harpenden, Hertford, England 11. WILLIAM SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 27 MAY 1828 Harpenden, Hertford, England 12. WILLIAM SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 MAY 1839 Harpenden, Hertford, England 13. EMMA SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 12 MAR 1837 Harpenden, Hertford, England 14. CHARLOTTE SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 20 FEB 1831 Harpenden, Hertford, England 15. MATTHEW SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 14 JUL 1816 Harpenden, Hertford, England 16. JOHN SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 21 MAY 1848 Harpenden, Hertford, England 17. SARAH SCRIVENOR - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 15 FEB 1824 Harpenden, Hertford, England 18. SARAH SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 29 DEC 1850 Harpenden, Hertford, England 19. MARIANNE SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 30 AUG 1829 Harpenden, Hertford, England 20. SAMUEL SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 29 JUN 1828 Harpenden, Hertford, England 21. ANNA SCRIVENOR - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 29 FEB 1824 Harpenden, Hertford, England 22. ANN ELIZABETH SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 08 MAY 1836 Harpenden, Hertford, England 23. WILLIAM SCRIVENER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 05 SEP 1819 Harpenden, Hertford, England I know it's not Luton, but not that far away. Elly

Desparate help needed please to find a CHARLES SCRIVENER (the spelling can be anything but!!) age approx 16yrs old. Area most probably LUTON but as occupation Ag Lab could be in one of the hamlets. I did try to look at the 1841 film in the Archives yesterday but unable to find. The clarity of the print was nil in places. Would appreciate any help possible as I will have come to a dead end if I have no confirmation of his parents. Regards Maureen.