Genealogy Chat

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Anyone any ideas? Have a couple of threads on here looking for my 3x and 4x great grandparents – just a thought, my 1x, 2x and 3x ggrandfathers were all ‘coach carvers’ – I presume doing the ornate work on upper class carriages of the day, and all were ‘apprenticed’ to their fathers on various census. Does anyone have any idea if I might be able to find their apprenticeship records anywhere? Thanks Trudy

Hi I think it depends where they were. Certainly I have to say Ive had no luck finding my GGFx2 and x3 apprenticeship papers in London - both cabinet carvers. Try having a quick google. Coach companies would be much fewer than cabinet makers, you may find some info to help. Good luck

Thanks Heather It was a long shot, but will have a look - guess where they are - Hackney - can't get more 'central London' than that!!! Trudy

So you are going to look for Hackney Cabs in Hackney eh?

Ha Ha very funny Heather - but just found this on the Guild of Master Carvers, don't think it helps me, but might help you: THE MASTER CARVERS' ASSOCIATION During the Victorian era, the phenomenal growth of towns and cities in Britain resulted in a building boom that has not been equalled since. The requirement for civic buildings, churches and housing created an unprecedented demand for artist-craftsmen. Large workshops of architectural and ornamental carvers flourished in many areas, with the skills to tackle the florid styles of the day. The Association was founded by the many employers of thousands of trade carvers in the late 19th century. Its primary function was to uphold the quality of training of architectural carvers, provide a mechanism within which their skills were recognised and for which rates of pay and working conditions could be negotiated with the newly emerging Trades Unions. To become a Member of the Association, an employer had to demonstrate the carving skills of his employees were of an excellent standard, comprehensive, properly rewarded and that an apprentice training scheme was in place. Today things are very different. Architectural styles have changed with carved ornament very rarely a requirement. The large workshops that could encompass the manifold skills of architectural carving in wood and stone plus the allied crafts, hardly exist today. More often than not crafts people are working in small specialist groups or as individuals. This dispersal has also brought about a change in the training of crafts people. Some colleges now provide courses in basic skills that students can hone later on shorter apprenticeships with a Master Carver. With the main growth area being in restoration and conservation, carvers have had to become proficient in many styles, as the demand requires, quickly learning to carve in 'the spirit of the age'. For instance the replacement of gothic stone carving on Westminster Abbey, late 17th century oak wood carving at Hampton Court Palace, 18th century wood and marble at Spencer House, London, and 18th century and 19th century wood carving at Windsor Castle. Many of these projects were worked on by the same group of craftsmen. Although the skill of carving has changed very little, modern carvers must also learn the new skills of casting in the modern resins and plastics needed in the 21st century, whilst retaining the old skills and materials for restoration work. The Association now boasts a membership of over 40, about half being individual carvers with the rest employing a number of apprentices and trained crafts people. Between them they possess a huge number of skills, completely demolishing the commonly believed myth that 'all the old skills have disappeared'. These skills include figure and heraldic carving; picture frame carving and gilding; letter cutting in both wood and stone; architectural wood and stone carving along with ecclesiastical carving; modelling for casting in many materials and mould making; cabinet making and furniture restoration. Members keep in touch through occasional newsletters, meetings and every modern method of communication. They quite often form teams of carvers to undertake large or prestigious jobs where a number of skilled carvers are required. One such team, put together by the Association, worked on the fine restoration of the Carlton House Trophies at Windsor Castle, damaged in the fire. This team not only had to patch and re-gild carvings that had been damaged, but in some cases completely recreate missing trophies from photographs. Some of our members have branched out overseas and have been involved in carving for new buildings in the Middle East, Japan, Ireland and the USA. In fact 3 of our members now reside in the USA. The Association celebrated its Centenary in 1998 with a splendid dinner at the Savoy Hotel in London, where a gathering of many long established members and newly recruited younger members pledged to uphold the traditions and professionalism of the past and look forward to the next century with confidence in their skill and a determination to succeed.

Many thanks, I contacted them about a year back and got a bit of a snooty letter back saying how they are always getting that sort of enquiry and they have no records to help! Well, excuse me!

Trudy, did you see this on your googles: Victorian London - Directories - Dickens's Dictionary of London ...CARVERS AND GILDERS – Lapworth Bros., 22, Old Bond-st. ... Mare-st, Hackney, and Clapton. From Aldersgate-street every 6 minutes from 8.30 a.rn. to 11.30 pm ...

Heather In answer to you mails, 2nd one - no I didn't see that, will have a look, 1st one - oh well, wait for it to hit my email then, just sent a mail to them, we'll see what comes back. Trudy