General Chat

Hi

Rita

The new by-law says that everyone is to clear the sidewalk and paths by 10am after a snowfall. It requests that people help their neighbours who might be unable to do it, and also provides for the city to clear the sidewalk if someone is unable to do so themselves, ie are too old and infirm, and cannot arrange for other help.


There is a fine for not clearing (about $1000/£500 if I remember correctly), which would not be imposed if you are infirm and/or old, but would be imposed if you had gone away on holiday without arranging for someone to clear the sidewalk if necessary.


Frank ................ you may well be right.

I noticed last year when we had snow and ice on the ground for over 6 weeks that it was the "oldsters" who had cleared the sidewalks (and often neighbours' walks as well!), while it was the young "incomers" who had not done it.

I use "incomers" advisably ......... many of them are from other lands where cooperation is not common, but many of them are also young Canadian-born workaholics "too busy to do anything at home".


That event last winter is the reason for the new by-law ................ there were hundreds of people who were housebound for weeks because of the difficulty in walking along residential streets. I myself didn't go out for at least 2 weeks because I find it very difficult to walk on uneven ground.


We have lived in this house since 1972, and the neighbours have always pitched in to help one another ....... OH might clear the neighbour's walk today, but neighbour would do ours next week type of thing. Now almost 40 years later, there are still about 6 (out of about 14) of the original neighbours still here, the youngest being OH at 71 ............. and their paths are the ones that were cleared in the snowfall we had just before Christmas. OH cleared the sidewalks (corner house) for the 84 year old across the street who had just had a heart attack ................... but Joe'll be back strong and hearty next time!!.




sylvia

Just a thought ...... if the bin men can get through then they could deliver grit boxes and grit.
Joan

Living in Canada, we get a lot of snow. Even Vancouver where I live gets more snow than you usually do in the UK

It is LAW over here in most places that we have to clear the sidewalk outside our houses by 10 am in the morning after snow has fallen. Most people clear their paths and steps ........ the postman can refuse to deliver if this is not done.

We also buy bags of special salt to put down on paths, steps and sidewalks to help melt any ice and prevent people from slipping.

In Vancouver, it used to be the law that only business owners and owners/managers of multi-dwelling buidlings should clear the sidewalks. It was considered courtesy that owners/renters of single family dwellings should do the same. But we had a very snowy winter last year, the worst one for about 15 years, and there have been so many incomers to the city that didn't understand the "courtesy" aspect and left the sidewalks uncleared, that a new bye-law was written and passed in December.



sylvia

I was told years ago when I worked for a local council that it wasn't a good idea to clear pavements as it makes you liable but my parents and their neighbours always shovelled the snow off the paths outside their houses as well as the paths to the houses. I put salt down on my own pathway years back after shovelling the snow to one side in the garden but didn't clear outside the house on the public paths.

Round this culdesac I haven't seen any gritters so altho main roads get cleared with the grit spread, it's always bad here. Even the road through the estate which this culdesac and many others lead from, wasn't gritted before Christmas, hence my fall on black ice. I haven't walked out when it's been snowy since, it has thawed away and come back again slightly. I don't know where the nearest grit box is to here - can't recall seeing one.

If you have household insurance you probably have public liability insurance included so might be worth talking to the insurance company before clearing any snow.

Lizx

I think there are 2 grit boxes for a population of approximately 2, 250 people and 20 roads, on our estate,
a friend phoned the Highways department about gritting.
We are apparently not 'worthy' of being gritted as we are deemed a 'secondary' area!
When it was pointed out the vastly inadequate 2 grit boxes were empty, the caller was informed that 'they were emptied last February' - the tone implying that we are a thieving lot and had stolen it.
The caller then pointed out that perhaps it was used o the snow last February - when, of course, we weren't gritted!
Winchester is very hilly. To get on to the estate there is a long steep upwards hill, (rarely gritted) then the ground dips down, then up again. I live on the crest of a hill, so can be trapped whereas someone who lives on a flat area could (with difficulty & hanging onto fences), make it the mile or so before the road is officially gritted!

A friend left here yesterday evening about 7pm, in a 4 wheel drive. He got as far as the hill leading to the estate - and saw a car trapped. Wheels spinning, smoke coming from them, but the car couldn't move - the road was too icy!

2 weeks ago, we had no buses for a week - but amazingly - the bin men managed to get through!!

Far safer to put sand or grit down onto cleared paths.
When salt melts snow/ice and it freezes overnight,result is an 'ice rink'...

Does any one out there have any spare grit ?

We live at the top of a cul-de-sac and can't get the car off the estate.
We have a grit box at the end but it has no grit in it - people from other parts of the estate have taken it.
I phoned the local council emergency line this morning to request more grit (and grit boxes around the estate) One 2 boxes for an area of 450 houses !
The council lady said 'gritting is a highways issue' and gave me the highways number to call. Phoned it and was automated - office open 8am Monday. emergency call Preston Police.....................
Is this an emergency if we can't drive to work, or taxis won't pick up from the estate ?
Joan with a spade in my hands !!!!!!

Thanks for all your comments.
We generally have very little snow here, but if it does settle I usually clear our path and pavement before it's walked over,sprinkle with salt then wait for the sun to dry it.
I'll visit daughter's house tomorrow and see if I need to take action !

Gwyn

My cousin has lived in new york for nearly 30 years says out there you have to clear the out side of your houses your self, then these big lorries come round take the snow away and melts it. wish our Councils did that it would make life so much easier.

We put salt on our path and it was not at all slippery.

I know nothing of the legalities..........but I remember being very annoyed as a child that the people next door came out into the ally way and put hot ashes on the ice slide us kids had all created : (
The same people always used to keep every ball that ended up in their garden.

( sorry for going off track a bit there Gwyn )

If the councils had the manpower, they would probably be short of vehicles.
If the councils had the vehicles, they would probably be short of manpower.
If the councils had the manpower, and the vehicles, they would probably be short of salt.
If the councils had manpower, vehicles and salt,they would probably question the overtime.
By then the ice and snow will have melted anyway and after the possible flooding, we can start worrying about water shortages :))

C'est la vie !

That's interesting - because we live on a cul-de-sac off a main road, the gritters didn't come to us initially so three or four of us started shovelling snow to one side just so that everyone else could get their cars in and out. It was only because one of our neighbours spotted a gritter and told them our road needed gritting as much as the main road did that we even got any grit!

But on the other hand we do live right at the end of the cul-de-sac so there are only three or four houses who were directly affected - and people from all of those houses were clearing snow at one point.

Interestingly, Lancashire County Council were claiming something in the local paper about how they didn't have sufficient manpower and time to grit all roads so they stuck to just doing the main roads!

found this


31 December 2009
I have heard that removing snow and ice from the pavement outside your property may make you liable for any injuries caused.
Given the state of the pavements and side roads of Polegate this week, I thought I'd investigate this and here are some interesting facts:
The local authority is responsible for clearing snow and ice from the public highways and pavements.
Under t
ADVERTISEMENThe Highways Act 1980, the council must ensure that safe passage along a highway is not endangered by snow or ice.
Private landowners are not obliged to clear snow or ice from the public highway or pavement.
In fact from a legal point of view it may be risky for private individuals to clear these areas.
By clearing snow you can create a danger and if someone is injured, you may be liable for negligence.
On your own land, it is a different matter. You owe visitors a duty under the Occupiers Liability Act 1984 to take reasonable care to ensure that they are reasonably safe.
This means that if you know someone (such as customers or a postman) is likely to walk on your property, and you also know that it is slippery, you must take reasonable steps to keep those people safe.
However, you should not simply brush the snow on to the public pavement.
It is also a public nuisance to block the pavement of the road by sweeping snow from your property on to the highway.
It was much simpler before all these dubious injury claims companies started appearing, there were grit boxes at many locations, road gritter lorries had real men on the back throwing salt across the pavements and there was a community spirit which had everyone out clearing the snow, mind you I'm talking about many years ago!

If you clear snow from your path or the pavement outside your house, can you be deemed liable if someone later falls on that area?
Some say if you leave the snow, they take their own risks and you are not responsible for any later happening.......

Daughter has several steps up to her front door from street level. They are on the north side of the building and so are shaded from any sun that might otherwise melt the snow.
What to do...?

Gwyn