General Chat

hi, in my opinion ( no offence to anyone ) i believe ORGANISED religion has a lot to answer for, after all it is the faith of its people that leads them to commit the sins they are against in the name of their religion. however, i also belive that a persons faith in a higher being, whoever that may be, can pull them through terrible times and comfort them, so this must be a good thing. i like William Blakes idea that god can be found a little in every living thing. I also like to think that those that i love and lost are being cared for by a god of infinate love and compassion. victoria

Robert, What a lovely reply :0) I have no religion either, but a father who converted to Islam when I was 12 and actually taught religion (Islam) in Saudi Arabia - but I could still taunt him with bacon lol !! Oh, I also have a degree in religious studies, but didn't study much Christianity. Chloe, The Pope, Shamen, the Dalai Lama, Mohammed, Jesus etc all served one purpose - the link between us and God, or 'the other world' with various forms of intimacy. What I believe was so special about Pope John Paul II (apart from not being Italian) was that he had led a full 'normal' life before committing himself to a religious life, which made him more of a 'man of the people' than someone who had led a totally religious life, ie Catholic School, Theology at University then Priest. maggie PS This is not to say I agreed with all his views LOL

Arriving late, as usual... Christopher, your ideas about the general populous being obsessed with celebs... Perhaps you should have said 'The Media,' in their increasingly desperate attempts to get readers / viewers / listeners. You, me, and that lady down the road with the annoying dog - we have our own minds, and like to try to think for ourselves (true, many may not, but I like to think that they are a minority). On the religious line... God is, no matter what you may believe - many use the argument that they have never seen Him, or any proof of His existence. My answer to that is that denial of His existence does not make Him cease to exist: have they ever seen a duck-billed platypus, or any evidence of their existence ('No,' will probably be the answer from 95% of the world's population). Does that mean that a duck-billed platypus does not exist? No, of course not. My own views on religion have been expressed elsewhere, and (to judge by some of the responses seen) will probably raise hackles if raised here. All I will say is that I am basically anti-religion. I have talked it over with a pastor, and he (surprisingly!) agreed with me, and said that Jesus Himself was very much against religion, too - and the religious leaders of His day got together and said (to paraphrase): 'If He really is the Messiah, then we are out of a job...' The rest, as they say, is history. My understanding is that Jesus only said, 'Follow me, and believe.' That is all we need to do. Chloe, merely pointing out that the sky is blue will offend someone, so don't worry about that. I feel sorry for you for having such a closed-minded mother. A person with a closed mind must have a disappointing view of life. But, look on the bright side - she has made you open up this thread! Rob

No problem Peter.....I can understand your feelings...no matter whatever feelings you have about Pope John Paul the effort he put into ensuring the Catholic Church was recognised in his homeland and had places to worship will go down in history...

Christopher, I think you made a VERY good point. I am not afraid to admit that I DIDN'T remember Mother Theresa dying the same week as Diana. Not very impressed with myself either! Nothing wrong AT ALL with what you have said. I disagree fervently with the RC Church's continuing opposition to the use of condoms to restrict the spread of Aids in Africa - I feel this is a complete abuse of the Vatican's power. I will say no more at this time for fear of offending. This is my personal opinion. Maz. XX

Thanks Christine and Keith. I think it's a good discussion, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Whether or not it dies down, it has been discussed (sort of). Chloe Dave - I can understand that you're upset. Thanks for retracting your comment.

Chloe You have stated your case throughout this thread with admirable reasoning. I wish I could show the same restraint. If you reach a conclusion on your thoughts, please let us know. Keith

I have deleted my end dicussion comment in hindsight I think it was undemocratic sorry, I was upset! Davex

Hi Chloe Your thread is not offensive and I don't think it should termiated because the Pope has died....I am a Catholic and these are my views and also what happens next.... The Pope is not 'holy' or 'worshipped' by Catholics but he is the head of our Church and as far as we are concerned has been chosen by God to be in that position.... We believe that in certain conditions he is 'infallible'....when he expresses views 'ex cathedra' then what he says must be adhered to and believed.....this does not mean that 'everything' he says is to be adhered to.... Now the Pope has died the Cardininal Camerlego takes over, declares that the Pope has died, seals his appartments, smashes his Papal ring, arranges the funeral and assembles the Cardinals to vote for the next Pope. In the mean time the College of Cardinals will take over the running of the Church... Pope John Paul will be buried within four to six days but the period of officail mourning is nine days The voting for the new Pope will begin 15 - 20 days after the Popes death My prayers are with Pope John Paul and also with the the new incumbent...

well said Felicity.

Christopher - your point wasn't made very well :-). We remembered who died the same week as Princess Diana.

I'm very sorry to see that Zoe is offended by what seemed to me perfectly natural and innocent questions. To my mind, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' time to ask these things. The Pope's health is in the news, prompting those who do not know to ask 'what next?' As for justifying one's beliefs, surely we wouldn't hold them if we felt they couldn't be justified. I am so sorry that sectarianism is such an issue, it is a dreadful way to have to live, but honestly I personally don't see Chloe's questions as accusatory or intimidating. So far as I can see she's just a bright intelligent person asking for information.

Zoe - I'm sorry to have caused offence. I was not saying that people had to justify their beliefs AT ALL. I was not saying 'there is no God'. As for sectarianism - I'm not trying to create it. I'm trying to understand. I hate the fact that all the religions are seen as different to each other when they all have the same BASIC ideas. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are prime examples. Ok - let's widen the question to the Dalai Lama then..... I didn't mean worship to the extent that you have taken it. I should have been clearer. The pope, along with Jesus, Muhammad, Dalai Lama etc are all put up on a pedestal.... I was asking why that was. Shouldn't the great concern be with God, and push the others aside, and focus solely on God/Allah/Buddha etc. I don't see how that can be bad timing. A question about religion..... maybe I should have widen the view point and not specifically put it on Catholicism, for that I am sorry. Chloe

That's up to the individual. I'm not talking about John Paul II specifically. I was trying to widen my perspective on the world and the people in it. The situation of John Paul II did spur me to write this message, if I had left it longer, I would have forgotten, I have a terrible memory for anything non genealogy!

Christopher why are you making out that we are thick of course we know Mother Theresa died the same week as Princess Diana dont be so insulting and retract your remark! Dave

Mother Theresa of Calcutta

Im sorry Chloe I do tend to agree with Zoe your timing is not very good sweetheart! Dave

I mentioned her earlier, Mother Theresa on the 6th September 1997, and no I did not google, I remember it very vividly. Dave - thanks for the answer, and to you too, Felicity.

Mother Theresa Gwynne

I suppose Chloe these cardinals will be directed by God only they will know wont they? Davex