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Broomstick ..."In regards to the wedding certs to my eyes all the writing looks the same ie: written by the vicar !!!!! "

Three different churches, three different vicars. There is no doubt in my mind that the signatures of Louisa Pearce and Louisa Hurwood (marrying Arthur Hearn) are by the same hand. The signature of Louisa Hurwood marrying Edward Plumb is different

Jude

I agree.

Broomstick possibly has copies of the certs which have been transcribed by the reg. office from the originals rather than photocopies of the original registers which can now be viewed on Ancestry.

Dea x

Dea / Jude

The copies I have of all the certs are ones I have received from the GRO office
I don't have a paid account on Ancestry just pay per view
My paid membership is here on genes
I will come back to this thread with any info I recieve including the cert

Thanks again for all the help :-)

Broomstick - if you want any of the certs I can mail them to you through GR. Just let me know...I even cropped the Louisa signatures and copied them to Word to compare!

Jude

London, England, Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1430-1930 (Ancestry)

Edmonton House Workhouse: Creed Registers, 1896-1898 (image 133 of 289)

Hurwood John 44 From Hornsey Born 1854 (name of Paupers nearest Relative or Friend) Louisa Hurwood (wife) 22 Denmark Rd. Hornsey. Date of Admission 7/6/98 Discharge 8/6/98 Dead.

Chris :)

Chris - didn't mince words did they? :-)

Jude

that would be very kind thank you then I would see what you are seeing

Thank you Chris

(certainly didn't Jude, to the point!)

Chris :)


Deaths Dec 1925 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Plumb Louisa 62 Edmonton 3a 695

(is above Louisa?)

Louisa Plumb 1924 Haringey Wood Green 70 Winkfield Road

(comes up at above address with Edward, in the twenties. London, England, Electoral Registers (Ancestry)

Certificates and signature comparison emailed

Jude

Hello
Just to say that I am still waiting for the birth certificate for Arthur Hicks !!!!! Was despatched on the 3rd October !!
I have contacted the GRO and they are re sending asked if they could email cannot due to some legislation !!
In the mean time I am still wading through stuff
Will update when I get it
Lorraine

I was wondering. So thanks for keeping us up-to-date

Hello, ChristinaS, HeyJudeB4Beatles, Dea, Gritty and Mavis

Well the results are in the cert arrived this morning!!

NO father named on cert :-(
just states
Arthur 1st August
Queen Charlotte Hospital St Pancras
Mother Louisa Hicks Dressmaker St Pancras
Address 52 Chalton Street St Pancras

Oh my where do I go from here :-(
Interesting enough I have looked at the location of where they lived
Hurwood Drummond Cres
Churchill Judd Street
Hicks Camden mews
on an old map of London all these places were in close proximity to one another could this be relevant or am I clutching at straws????
Would Arthur have been honest on his Army record ??
Would trying to obtain his Army record show anything?
Any thoughts anyone ????

Cross referencing thread on Military Chat

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1345905

Only the medal card seems to have survived

What a disappointment after waiting all that time.

No sign of admissions to the army or any school. Both of which might have given a birth date :-(

The only other thing I can think of is that Louisa may have taken the father to court for child support. If she did, there's only a very remote chance that the recods will have survived.

No joy with bastardy bonds. I took a look in the Metropolitan Archives today. The records of that period don't appear to have survived.

Only thing I found, which is of very little use, was Louisa's admission to Queen Charlotte Hospital.

Admitted 31/07/1884 2.30am Baby delivered 01/08/1884 3.20am

Weight 7lb Length 21 inches

Louisa gave her age as 21 and her address as: 52 Charles Street, Euston Road

Wish I could find out who was living there at that time.

is it 52 Chalton st 0r 52 Charles st ????

:-) :-)

Mavis

It was handwritten, and said 52 Charles Street. But if you've found a Charlton Street off Euston Road, maybe that's what it should have said.

ChistineS
Thank you very much for taking the time out to look for information on Louisa
On the birth cert I have from the records office it says 52, Charlton Street, St Pancras, strangely enough, on this cert in the box it say enter name, surname and maiden name of mother all that is in there is Louisa Hicks Dressmaker of St Pancras.
The other thing to say is I have found a Hicks family including a Louisa born 1860 living in Earl street in 1861 which again is in the circle of the other families I don't seem to be able to find this one after that.
I am thinking that Louisa did have both children as a single mother
I just now need to try an piece together how it all came about switching families!!!
something I may never be able to do
any other thoughts

Again, this doesn't help to solve anything. But I wonder if the address should have been 52 Chalton Street, which is actually off the Euston Road.

In 1891 there was a Martha Watts living there who was a monthly nurse.

I thought I'd chip in briefly with my thoughts about this (I'm a descendent of Arthur Hurwood, but that doesn't mean I know anything better than anyone else). I may have talked to some of you in this thread before - if you came to the UK this Summer/Autumn.

When I asked my grandfather about his family history in the 1980s he said his family had been cab drivers and french polishers: my guess is that all he had been told was John Hurwood had been his grandfather and didn't know any better. But then he also said he had many other brothers and that some had died from consumption, and there's no record of them anywhere - so I'm not certain of anything.

Anyway, my take on it is that there are two possibilities:
1. Louisa Churchill had two children with Arthur Hicks in the 1880s, but never told them about it - and always said that John Hurwood was the father.

2. Louisa Churchill lived with John Hurwood, and had his children in the 1880s, but wanted to disguise who the father was on the birth certificate. This may have been because they thought John was still married to the other Louisa.

I think either possibility could be true and there's arguments for either side. Arthur Hicks was around, in the right occupation, at the right time. He's never directly accused of being the father, but indirectly you could say he was. Equally, though, it might just have been a useful name to put indirectly on the birth certificate to disguise things.

The other thing to bear in mind is that when Arthur Hurwood was killed in France (in 1917) apparently the rest of the Hurwood family were not friendly or helpful to his widow (I've been told). Maybe they didn't think he was anything to do with them?